Why aren't $P-1,P+1$ primes where $P = p_1p_2…p_n$? [duplicate] The Next CEO of Stack...
Are there languages with no euphemisms?
% symbol leads to superlong (forever?) compilations
What can we do to stop prior company from asking us questions?
How do I go from 300 unfinished/half written blog posts, to published posts?
Opposite of a diet
Is it okay to store user locations?
How to safely derail a train during transit?
Implement the Thanos sorting algorithm
Is it safe to use c_str() on a temporary string?
How to write papers efficiently when English isn't my first language?
Describing a person. What needs to be mentioned?
Why were Madagascar and New Zealand discovered so late?
Only print output after finding pattern
Text adventure game code
How to count occurrences of text in a file?
When airplanes disconnect from a tanker during air to air refueling, why do they bank so sharply to the right?
Is a stroke of luck acceptable after a series of unfavorable events?
Can a single photon have an energy density?
How do scammers retract money, while you can’t?
How long to clear the 'suck zone' of a turbofan after start is initiated?
How do I solve this limit?
Grabbing quick drinks
Should I tutor a student who I know has cheated on their homework?
Why didn't Theresa May consult with Parliament before negotiating a deal with the EU?
Why aren't $P-1,P+1$ primes where $P = p_1p_2…p_n$? [duplicate]
The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHow do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime?Infinitely many primes of the form $6cdot k+1$ , where $k$ is an odd number?Infinitely many primes $equiv 2 pmod 3$ proof correctnessProve that if $R$ is not prime then $R$ must have a prime factor $q$ that is larger than $p_n$.Euclid's proof of infinitude of primes.Euclid's proof for the existence of infinitely many primeHow to pigeonhole the primes between $p_n$ and $p_{n+1}^2$ for twin prime conjecture?Prove that there exists infinitely many primes of Digital root $2,5$ or $8$Infinite primes - proof of new prime for compositeCan't understand the logical structure of Euclid's infinitely many primes proof in Rosen's book.A sieve for twin primes; does it imply there are infinite many twin primes?
$begingroup$
This question already has an answer here:
How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]
3 answers
Euclid's theorem states:
Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.
If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.
My question:
Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?
Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.
So the proof would be:
Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.
Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.
Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.
elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins
$endgroup$
marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque
StackExchange.ready(function() {
if (StackExchange.options.isMobile) return;
$('.dupe-hammer-message-hover:not(.hover-bound)').each(function() {
var $hover = $(this).addClass('hover-bound'),
$msg = $hover.siblings('.dupe-hammer-message');
$hover.hover(
function() {
$hover.showInfoMessage('', {
messageElement: $msg.clone().show(),
transient: false,
position: { my: 'bottom left', at: 'top center', offsetTop: -7 },
dismissable: false,
relativeToBody: true
});
},
function() {
StackExchange.helpers.removeMessages();
}
);
});
});
2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question already has an answer here:
How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]
3 answers
Euclid's theorem states:
Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.
If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.
My question:
Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?
Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.
So the proof would be:
Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.
Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.
Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.
elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins
$endgroup$
marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque
StackExchange.ready(function() {
if (StackExchange.options.isMobile) return;
$('.dupe-hammer-message-hover:not(.hover-bound)').each(function() {
var $hover = $(this).addClass('hover-bound'),
$msg = $hover.siblings('.dupe-hammer-message');
$hover.hover(
function() {
$hover.showInfoMessage('', {
messageElement: $msg.clone().show(),
transient: false,
position: { my: 'bottom left', at: 'top center', offsetTop: -7 },
dismissable: false,
relativeToBody: true
});
},
function() {
StackExchange.helpers.removeMessages();
}
);
});
});
2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
11
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
1
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This question already has an answer here:
How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]
3 answers
Euclid's theorem states:
Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.
If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.
My question:
Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?
Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.
So the proof would be:
Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.
Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.
Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.
elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins
$endgroup$
This question already has an answer here:
How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]
3 answers
Euclid's theorem states:
Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.
If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.
My question:
Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?
Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.
So the proof would be:
Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.
Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.
Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.
This question already has an answer here:
How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]
3 answers
elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins
elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins
edited Mar 16 at 14:24
user21820
39.8k544158
39.8k544158
asked Mar 16 at 0:54
Jeffrey ScottJeffrey Scott
393
393
marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque
StackExchange.ready(function() {
if (StackExchange.options.isMobile) return;
$('.dupe-hammer-message-hover:not(.hover-bound)').each(function() {
var $hover = $(this).addClass('hover-bound'),
$msg = $hover.siblings('.dupe-hammer-message');
$hover.hover(
function() {
$hover.showInfoMessage('', {
messageElement: $msg.clone().show(),
transient: false,
position: { my: 'bottom left', at: 'top center', offsetTop: -7 },
dismissable: false,
relativeToBody: true
});
},
function() {
StackExchange.helpers.removeMessages();
}
);
});
});
2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque
StackExchange.ready(function() {
if (StackExchange.options.isMobile) return;
$('.dupe-hammer-message-hover:not(.hover-bound)').each(function() {
var $hover = $(this).addClass('hover-bound'),
$msg = $hover.siblings('.dupe-hammer-message');
$hover.hover(
function() {
$hover.showInfoMessage('', {
messageElement: $msg.clone().show(),
transient: false,
position: { my: 'bottom left', at: 'top center', offsetTop: -7 },
dismissable: false,
relativeToBody: true
});
},
function() {
StackExchange.helpers.removeMessages();
}
);
});
});
2 days ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
11
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
1
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22
add a comment |
11
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
1
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22
11
11
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
1
1
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.
Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few flaws in this method:
- P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.
- Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.
- 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.
- Other constraints.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.
Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.
Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.
$endgroup$
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.
Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.
$endgroup$
Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.
Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.
answered Mar 16 at 0:59
Robert ShoreRobert Shore
3,603324
3,603324
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
add a comment |
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
5
5
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
$begingroup$
Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
$endgroup$
– Jeffrey Scott
Mar 16 at 1:00
2
2
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:51
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
$begingroup$
in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
$endgroup$
– Roddy MacPhee
Mar 17 at 2:23
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few flaws in this method:
- P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.
- Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.
- 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.
- Other constraints.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few flaws in this method:
- P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.
- Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.
- 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.
- Other constraints.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
A few flaws in this method:
- P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.
- Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.
- 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.
- Other constraints.
$endgroup$
A few flaws in this method:
- P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.
- Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.
- 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.
- Other constraints.
edited Mar 17 at 2:33
answered Mar 17 at 2:17
Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee
553118
553118
add a comment |
add a comment |
11
$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59
1
$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11
$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22