Why aren't $P-1,P+1$ primes where $P = p_1p_2…p_n$? [duplicate] The Next CEO of Stack...

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Why aren't $P-1,P+1$ primes where $P = p_1p_2…p_n$? [duplicate]



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHow do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime?Infinitely many primes of the form $6cdot k+1$ , where $k$ is an odd number?Infinitely many primes $equiv 2 pmod 3$ proof correctnessProve that if $R$ is not prime then $R$ must have a prime factor $q$ that is larger than $p_n$.Euclid's proof of infinitude of primes.Euclid's proof for the existence of infinitely many primeHow to pigeonhole the primes between $p_n$ and $p_{n+1}^2$ for twin prime conjecture?Prove that there exists infinitely many primes of Digital root $2,5$ or $8$Infinite primes - proof of new prime for compositeCan't understand the logical structure of Euclid's infinitely many primes proof in Rosen's book.A sieve for twin primes; does it imply there are infinite many twin primes?












6












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]

    3 answers




Euclid's theorem states:




Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.



If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.






My question:



Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?



Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.





So the proof would be:



Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.



Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.



Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.










share|cite|improve this question











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marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque prime-numbers
Users with the  prime-numbers badge can single-handedly close prime-numbers questions as duplicates and reopen them as needed.

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2 days ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 11




    $begingroup$
    There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
    $endgroup$
    – Noe Blassel
    Mar 16 at 0:59






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:11










  • $begingroup$
    (2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    Mar 17 at 8:22


















6












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]

    3 answers




Euclid's theorem states:




Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.



If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.






My question:



Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?



Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.





So the proof would be:



Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.



Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.



Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.










share|cite|improve this question











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marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque prime-numbers
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2 days ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 11




    $begingroup$
    There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
    $endgroup$
    – Noe Blassel
    Mar 16 at 0:59






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:11










  • $begingroup$
    (2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    Mar 17 at 8:22
















6












6








6


0



$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]

    3 answers




Euclid's theorem states:




Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.



If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.






My question:



Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?



Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.





So the proof would be:



Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.



Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.



Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





This question already has an answer here:




  • How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]

    3 answers




Euclid's theorem states:




Consider any finite list of prime numbers $p_1, p_2, ..., p_n$. It will be shown that at least one additional prime number not in this list exists. Let $P$ be the product of all the prime numbers in the list: $P = p_1p_2...p_n$. Let $q = P + 1$. Then $q$ is either prime or not.



If $q$ is prime, then there is at least one more prime that is not in the list. If $q$ is not prime, then some prime factor $p$ divides $q$. If this factor $p$ were in our list, then it would divide $P$ (since $P$ is the product of every number in the list); but $p$ divides $P + 1 = q$. If $p$ divides $P$ and $q$, then $p$ would have to divide the difference of the two numbers, which is $(P + 1) − P$ or just $1$. Since no prime number divides $1$, $p$ cannot be on the list. This means that at least one more prime number exists beyond those in the list. This proves that for every finite list of prime numbers there is a prime number not in the list, and therefore there must be infinitely many prime numbers.






My question:



Does this theorem also hold if you let $q = P - 1$?



Wouldn't $P-1$ also be necessarily a new prime number? And if so, it and $P+1$ would be a set of twin primes.





So the proof would be:



Assume there are a finite number of twin primes such that $p_{n+1} - p_n = 2$.



Then, from the final set of twin primes, choose the larger of these two primes $p_{n+1}$. Calculate $S=p_1p_2...p_{n+1}$. So you now have a product of all primes up to $p_{n+1}$. Call this $S$. $S + 1$ is a prime number and so is $S - 1$. This is a new set of twin primes not in our original list, thus there cannot be a finite list of twin primes.



Of course, if $S - 1$ is not prime, then this falls apart.





This question already has an answer here:




  • How do we know Euclid's sequence always generates a new prime? [duplicate]

    3 answers








elementary-number-theory prime-numbers prime-twins






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 16 at 14:24









user21820

39.8k544158




39.8k544158










asked Mar 16 at 0:54









Jeffrey ScottJeffrey Scott

393




393




marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque prime-numbers
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This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by Bill Dubuque prime-numbers
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2 days ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 11




    $begingroup$
    There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
    $endgroup$
    – Noe Blassel
    Mar 16 at 0:59






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:11










  • $begingroup$
    (2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    Mar 17 at 8:22
















  • 11




    $begingroup$
    There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
    $endgroup$
    – Noe Blassel
    Mar 16 at 0:59






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:11










  • $begingroup$
    (2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
    $endgroup$
    – DanielWainfleet
    Mar 17 at 8:22










11




11




$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59




$begingroup$
There’s absolutely no reason why S+1 or S-1 should be a prime number though, it merely has an unlisted prime factor.
$endgroup$
– Noe Blassel
Mar 16 at 0:59




1




1




$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11




$begingroup$
By the way, take a look at the edits. It's a courtesy to other contributors to use MathJax to format your posts. If you're not familiar with it, it's not hard to learn -- I've been on this site for less than two months and it has become second nature.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 16 at 1:11












$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22






$begingroup$
(2)(3)(5)(7)(11)(13)(17)+1 is divisible by 19.
$endgroup$
– DanielWainfleet
Mar 17 at 8:22












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.



Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
    $endgroup$
    – Jeffrey Scott
    Mar 16 at 1:00






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:51










  • $begingroup$
    in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
    $endgroup$
    – Roddy MacPhee
    Mar 17 at 2:23



















1












$begingroup$

A few flaws in this method:




  • P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.

  • Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.

  • 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.

  • Other constraints.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    15












    $begingroup$

    Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.



    Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
      $endgroup$
      – Jeffrey Scott
      Mar 16 at 1:00






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
      $endgroup$
      – Robert Shore
      Mar 16 at 1:51










    • $begingroup$
      in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 2:23
















    15












    $begingroup$

    Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.



    Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
      $endgroup$
      – Jeffrey Scott
      Mar 16 at 1:00






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
      $endgroup$
      – Robert Shore
      Mar 16 at 1:51










    • $begingroup$
      in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 2:23














    15












    15








    15





    $begingroup$

    Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.



    Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    Remember, your original argument doesn't show that $P+1$ is itself prime. It shows that $P+1$ has a prime factor that you haven't already accounted for. So while you could make the same argument for $P-1$, you'd also reach the same conclusion, not that $P-1$ is itself necessarily prime, but only that it has some prime factor not in your original list. So that's of no help in proving the Twin Prime Conjecture.



    Similarly, you don't know that $S+1$ or $S-1$ is prime. You just know that they have prime factors that aren't on your original list of twin primes, but that doesn't help you.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Mar 16 at 0:59









    Robert ShoreRobert Shore

    3,603324




    3,603324








    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
      $endgroup$
      – Jeffrey Scott
      Mar 16 at 1:00






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
      $endgroup$
      – Robert Shore
      Mar 16 at 1:51










    • $begingroup$
      in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 2:23














    • 5




      $begingroup$
      Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
      $endgroup$
      – Jeffrey Scott
      Mar 16 at 1:00






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
      $endgroup$
      – Robert Shore
      Mar 16 at 1:51










    • $begingroup$
      in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
      $endgroup$
      – Roddy MacPhee
      Mar 17 at 2:23








    5




    5




    $begingroup$
    Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
    $endgroup$
    – Jeffrey Scott
    Mar 16 at 1:00




    $begingroup$
    Ah you're right. 2 * 3 * 5 * 7 = 210. But 209 is not prime.
    $endgroup$
    – Jeffrey Scott
    Mar 16 at 1:00




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:51




    $begingroup$
    Glad I could help. Acceptances of answers that you find useful are always welcome.
    $endgroup$
    – Robert Shore
    Mar 16 at 1:51












    $begingroup$
    in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
    $endgroup$
    – Roddy MacPhee
    Mar 17 at 2:23




    $begingroup$
    in fact you know they are composite, unless the product contains 2, or both 2 and 3.
    $endgroup$
    – Roddy MacPhee
    Mar 17 at 2:23











    1












    $begingroup$

    A few flaws in this method:




    • P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.

    • Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.

    • 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.

    • Other constraints.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      A few flaws in this method:




      • P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.

      • Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.

      • 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.

      • Other constraints.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        A few flaws in this method:




        • P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.

        • Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.

        • 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.

        • Other constraints.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        A few flaws in this method:




        • P+1, and P-1 aren't guaranteed to be prime just not divisible by a prime on the supposedly complete list.

        • Any product of only primes of forms 6n+1 and/or 6j-1 (aka above 3) will always land in one of these two forms, The best you have is $Spm 6$ could be prime or not in any case like that.

        • 2 is required in the product, or both S-1 and S+1 are even.

        • Other constraints.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Mar 17 at 2:33

























        answered Mar 17 at 2:17









        Roddy MacPheeRoddy MacPhee

        553118




        553118















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