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What to do with someone that cheated their way through university and a PhD program?



Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraIs it dishonest to start a PhD with intent to leave it and transfer to another program?Does wearing a university t-shirt imply that the wearer is affiliated with the university?What to do when some students pay someone to solve their exams projects and thesis?What should I do if someone else claims an award that I actually won?What can happen if someone acknowledges a grant on papers not related to that grant?i was caught cheating in my exam, I know it's wrong and I know I'm not stupid, it's just that how should I deal with it?Ethics of staying in PhD program with no intention of being an academic, and misleading my advisor about thisChange from one PhD-Program to a much more prestigious (and better paid) new program at my institutionWhat does it say about someone that accepts adding their name to a publication without doing any of the work?I grade exams together with a colleague but disagree with their grading. What should I do?










43















A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar GPA and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program.



His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department – he is a schmooze king. He gained favor by doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do – cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...



He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.



Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.










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  • 2





    Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

    – Wrzlprmft
    15 hours ago







  • 10





    What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

    – allo
    15 hours ago






  • 7





    Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

    – John Coleman
    13 hours ago







  • 2





    Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

    – only_pro
    8 hours ago






  • 2





    what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

    – aaaaaa
    5 hours ago















43















A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar GPA and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program.



His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department – he is a schmooze king. He gained favor by doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do – cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...



He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.



Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 2





    Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

    – Wrzlprmft
    15 hours ago







  • 10





    What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

    – allo
    15 hours ago






  • 7





    Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

    – John Coleman
    13 hours ago







  • 2





    Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

    – only_pro
    8 hours ago






  • 2





    what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

    – aaaaaa
    5 hours ago













43












43








43


5






A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar GPA and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program.



His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department – he is a schmooze king. He gained favor by doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do – cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...



He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.



Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












A person I know cheated through most of their science classes while an undergrad. He literally had someone else take the exams for him, write his reports, and do most of his homework. He then took his stellar GPA and not so stellar GRE score and got admitted to a not so great PhD program.



His new girlfriend at grad school wrote a lot of his papers. He ingratiated himself with the head of the department – he is a schmooze king. He gained favor by doing physical work that very few of the other grad students would do – cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them for whatever experiment his professor needed for his research. His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult. He was awarded his PhD. Mind you, he still can't explain to me nearly anything about basic chemistry, organic chemistry or biochemistry concepts. I'm talking like sn1, sn2, benzene rings, buffers, etc...



He now has a job with a pharmaceutical company doing anything but real science. He's basically a pharmaceutical rep out selling drugs to various physicians in a territory.



Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go? I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.







ethics cheating






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Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 5 hours ago







Jeffery Thomas













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asked yesterday









Jeffery ThomasJeffery Thomas

331135




331135




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New contributor





Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Jeffery Thomas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 2





    Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

    – Wrzlprmft
    15 hours ago







  • 10





    What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

    – allo
    15 hours ago






  • 7





    Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

    – John Coleman
    13 hours ago







  • 2





    Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

    – only_pro
    8 hours ago






  • 2





    what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

    – aaaaaa
    5 hours ago












  • 2





    Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

    – Wrzlprmft
    15 hours ago







  • 10





    What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

    – allo
    15 hours ago






  • 7





    Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

    – John Coleman
    13 hours ago







  • 2





    Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

    – only_pro
    8 hours ago






  • 2





    what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

    – aaaaaa
    5 hours ago







2




2





Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

– Wrzlprmft
15 hours ago






Answers in comments and general life advice has been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.

– Wrzlprmft
15 hours ago





10




10





What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

– allo
15 hours ago





What is your interest in the thing? What do you expect for you, in case that you inform someone or don't do anything? I think it is unclear in the question, why you are asking this (now) and how you're involved in it.

– allo
15 hours ago




7




7





Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

– John Coleman
13 hours ago






Are you sure you want to mess with a sociopath who likes cutting open mice heads and placing electrodes in them?

– John Coleman
13 hours ago





2




2





Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

– only_pro
8 hours ago





Are you jealous? Not sure why you would care so much otherwise. Mind your own business.

– only_pro
8 hours ago




2




2





what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

– aaaaaa
5 hours ago





what do you want to achieve? this question sounds more like a rant

– aaaaaa
5 hours ago










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

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103















He literally had someone else take the exams for him




If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.




His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.




There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).




Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?




You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.



Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.






share|improve this answer




















  • 88





    @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

    – zibadawa timmy
    yesterday






  • 8





    Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

    – Bob Brown
    22 hours ago






  • 13





    @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

    – jamesqf
    20 hours ago






  • 4





    @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

    – gerrit
    16 hours ago






  • 7





    @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

    – Christian
    14 hours ago


















34














You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.



Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.






share|improve this answer























  • +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

    – Roboticist
    7 hours ago


















15














Relax. His cheating has earned him nothing except a worthless piece of paper. He knows he doesn't have the skills to do scientific research, and most likely his employer has worked it out too.



All he's done is waste a number of years when he could have been climbing the corporate sales ladder. Someone with those smoozing skills and lack of ethics could have started as a commission-based shop assistant, moved to used cars or real-estate and then a big corporate sales department, or even politics. He'd be a lot richer and more senior if he'd concentrated on the things he was good at.



I wouldn't even worry about his clients. No one expects a salesman to be particularly knowledgeable in their field (or they'd be in research or operations rather than sales) or to be particularly honest.



Be happy that he's found a job that suits him, and for all the research scientists who don't have to work with him.






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  • 1





    You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

    – mathreadler
    3 hours ago


















13














I agree with others generally regarding your specific question about telling the school(s). You missed your chance to really stop him when you should have, at least if you cared about him not getting undeserved degrees.



However I strongly disagree with some of these "let it go" answers, at least in terms of their lack of concern. An unqualified chemist who doesn't know the fundamentals (that their resume claims they know) can literally kill people. Stories abound of such idiots in chemistry-related industries. As for the answer extolling "hard work". A person who worked hard to be a fraud sounds like a more dangerous type of fraud to me.



A pharmaceutical rep shouldn't be in a position to do any damage, if everyone else does their job properly. But with those credentials he is especially dangerous as people might be more trusting of a phd's claims. And let's not forget this is a guy who doesn't care about silly things like "rules" or doing things the right way.



Your concern needs to be about the damage he can do now. And the people who would care about that are his employer. However this is beyond the scope of this forum and I really don't have an answer how to address that. It is much more specific and legal question to your situation. Generally, others are probably right that there's not much you can do at this point from afar.






share|improve this answer




















  • 6





    Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

    – cag51
    yesterday











  • @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

    – A Simple Algorithm
    yesterday






  • 3





    Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

    – cag51
    21 hours ago











  • @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

    – JiK
    13 hours ago






  • 1





    @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

    – mathreadler
    3 hours ago


















4















I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.




If you have no evidence of wrongdoing then, even if you decided to do something, there is really not much you could legitimately do. Allegations of the type you are making are serious, and would require evidence. If you are confident that you would not be able to obtain corroborating evidence of your assertions, then there is really no reasonable prospect of any successful action against this person. So yes, in the absence of any evidence of the asserted wrongdoing, he has gotten away with it.



As to the possibility of telling his employer, if you make adverse allegations in this way, and they cause this person employment damage, this could potentially give rise to a legal action against you for defamation. There is a "defence of truth" in such actions, but this requires to person making allegations to prove these on the balance of probabilities. If you are considering doing this you should first seek legal advice.






share|improve this answer






























    1














    I mean there is nothing actionable you have now, but this dude clearly doesn't care about rules, and I'm sure he cheats in some capacity again, so you catch him in his most recent round of cheating (seems like a lot of work) or you just reveal his basic lack of chem knowledge somehow (also seems like a lot of work).






    share|improve this answer






























      1















      I have no way to prove anything.




      Then it is unclear to me why you are asking years after you could have done something,

      like tipping off people who would be involved in his defense.




      He has gotten away with fraud.




      A lot of people do.

      A friend of mine is a laughing stock within his family because it took him years longer to finish his degree than his cousin who did it in four years (plus summer school).



      Except that the cousin didn't finish in 4 years, in fact he didn't even finish.

      Their university allows people to "walk" in May if they can graduate using summer school.

      He registered for the summer school courses, invited his family to see him walk, walked (with them watching), dropped the courses, and got his parents money back.



      He doesn't have the degree like your relative does, but since everyone in his family thinks he does it is kind'a the same thing.



      Let it go.






      share|improve this answer






























        0














        I think an important point is clearly missing in the other answers:



        If the goal of a PhD is to make science going forward, he reached the goal ! Perhaps in a non standard way and, in my opinion, by far not the easiest way. Nevertheless research went (a bit) forward thanks to his ability of making other people work for him.



        So, not only you should let it go, but I think you should also respect the fact that he could "cheat" a whole study plus PhD which sounds like an almost impossible task for me.



        Maybe you should suggest him to do a degree in management. Sounds like it would really fit him.






        share|improve this answer























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          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

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          8 Answers
          8






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          103















          He literally had someone else take the exams for him




          If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.




          His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.




          There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).




          Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?




          You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.



          Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 88





            @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

            – zibadawa timmy
            yesterday






          • 8





            Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

            – Bob Brown
            22 hours ago






          • 13





            @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

            – jamesqf
            20 hours ago






          • 4





            @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

            – gerrit
            16 hours ago






          • 7





            @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

            – Christian
            14 hours ago















          103















          He literally had someone else take the exams for him




          If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.




          His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.




          There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).




          Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?




          You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.



          Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 88





            @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

            – zibadawa timmy
            yesterday






          • 8





            Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

            – Bob Brown
            22 hours ago






          • 13





            @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

            – jamesqf
            20 hours ago






          • 4





            @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

            – gerrit
            16 hours ago






          • 7





            @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

            – Christian
            14 hours ago













          103












          103








          103








          He literally had someone else take the exams for him




          If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.




          His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.




          There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).




          Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?




          You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.



          Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.






          share|improve this answer
















          He literally had someone else take the exams for him




          If you wanted to speak out, that was really the right time, not so many years later when damage is done and every accusation is virtually unprovable.




          His doctoral thesis was weak and the defense round wasn't difficult.




          There are many weak PhD theses around, and it's up to the universities and to the defense committees to decide which level of weakness is acceptable before rejecting a candidate (gosh, if we were to object to any "weak" degree...).




          Do I tell his employer? Do I tell the university? Do I let it go?




          You let it go because, as you said, you've nothing to prove your accusations (and the university would have no interest in undertaking an investigation after such a long time without any evidence to start with). And he is now in industry, and it's up to his employer to decide whether to promote or demote him according to his work performance and to decide whether the PhD title is just a vacuous document in his hands.



          Different is the case where, for instance, you can prove that a student cheated by plagiarising other works. Here, there is evidence that can be used to revoke a degree, as it happened in some cases.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Massimo OrtolanoMassimo Ortolano

          40.3k13122151




          40.3k13122151







          • 88





            @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

            – zibadawa timmy
            yesterday






          • 8





            Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

            – Bob Brown
            22 hours ago






          • 13





            @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

            – jamesqf
            20 hours ago






          • 4





            @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

            – gerrit
            16 hours ago






          • 7





            @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

            – Christian
            14 hours ago












          • 88





            @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

            – zibadawa timmy
            yesterday






          • 8





            Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

            – Bob Brown
            22 hours ago






          • 13





            @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

            – jamesqf
            20 hours ago






          • 4





            @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

            – gerrit
            16 hours ago






          • 7





            @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

            – Christian
            14 hours ago







          88




          88





          @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

          – zibadawa timmy
          yesterday





          @JefferyThomas Time to stop being jelly and focusing on him and start focusing on you. Schmoozing one's way up the ladder has been standard business procedure since the beginning of corporate ladders. Socializing is a legitimate skill that has legitimate uses, including getting yourself better jobs. Unless you have something actionable and provable right now, you've missed the train on holding him to account on your allegations. That's your failure, not his, and what his problems and failures are are not your problem or responsibility.

          – zibadawa timmy
          yesterday




          8




          8





          Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

          – Bob Brown
          22 hours ago





          Oh, man! If anyone asked me about my defense, I'd say it was a fiasco, especially the questions Dr. Li asked. Um, you may call me Doctor Brown, by the way.

          – Bob Brown
          22 hours ago




          13




          13





          @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

          – jamesqf
          20 hours ago





          @Jeffery Thomas: Doesn't work that way. Heck, give him a couple of decades, and he could be President :-(

          – jamesqf
          20 hours ago




          4




          4





          @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

          – gerrit
          16 hours ago





          @jamesqf At least if he becomes president OP may get their 5 minutes of fame on a talk show during the election campaign, relating their memories of grad school (and then be sued).

          – gerrit
          16 hours ago




          7




          7





          @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

          – Christian
          14 hours ago





          @zibadawatimmy Socialising is an even more important skill, if your job is selling stuff to people - he might acutally be good as his job. And not the first sales rep who has not the slightest idea about what he's selling

          – Christian
          14 hours ago











          34














          You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.



          Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.






          share|improve this answer























          • +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

            – Roboticist
            7 hours ago















          34














          You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.



          Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.






          share|improve this answer























          • +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

            – Roboticist
            7 hours ago













          34












          34








          34







          You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.



          Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.






          share|improve this answer













          You should stop beating the horse, because it is dead now. You had a chance but you lost it when you were in school and when something could have done about it. Right now, I believe you don't have any option other than letting it go. I can imagine your frustation in seeing him moving up the ladder (probably higher than you). If you didn't say anything when it actually could have changed anything, you should make peace with it now.



          Even if you tell his employer now, what proof do you have to prove your allegation? University probably won't have any interest in pursuing this now. Honestly speaking, I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this. What you call "schmooze king", is actually a desirable skill in industry. More connections you can make, better are your chances to move up the ladder faster. So I would say, stop being obsessive with his success (with fraud or otherwise), and focus on your career.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          nsinghsnsinghs

          1,396413




          1,396413












          • +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

            – Roboticist
            7 hours ago

















          • +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

            – Roboticist
            7 hours ago
















          +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

          – Roboticist
          7 hours ago





          +1: "I sense jealousy in your post that he is doing good after all this."

          – Roboticist
          7 hours ago











          15














          Relax. His cheating has earned him nothing except a worthless piece of paper. He knows he doesn't have the skills to do scientific research, and most likely his employer has worked it out too.



          All he's done is waste a number of years when he could have been climbing the corporate sales ladder. Someone with those smoozing skills and lack of ethics could have started as a commission-based shop assistant, moved to used cars or real-estate and then a big corporate sales department, or even politics. He'd be a lot richer and more senior if he'd concentrated on the things he was good at.



          I wouldn't even worry about his clients. No one expects a salesman to be particularly knowledgeable in their field (or they'd be in research or operations rather than sales) or to be particularly honest.



          Be happy that he's found a job that suits him, and for all the research scientists who don't have to work with him.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.















          • 1





            You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago















          15














          Relax. His cheating has earned him nothing except a worthless piece of paper. He knows he doesn't have the skills to do scientific research, and most likely his employer has worked it out too.



          All he's done is waste a number of years when he could have been climbing the corporate sales ladder. Someone with those smoozing skills and lack of ethics could have started as a commission-based shop assistant, moved to used cars or real-estate and then a big corporate sales department, or even politics. He'd be a lot richer and more senior if he'd concentrated on the things he was good at.



          I wouldn't even worry about his clients. No one expects a salesman to be particularly knowledgeable in their field (or they'd be in research or operations rather than sales) or to be particularly honest.



          Be happy that he's found a job that suits him, and for all the research scientists who don't have to work with him.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.















          • 1





            You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago













          15












          15








          15







          Relax. His cheating has earned him nothing except a worthless piece of paper. He knows he doesn't have the skills to do scientific research, and most likely his employer has worked it out too.



          All he's done is waste a number of years when he could have been climbing the corporate sales ladder. Someone with those smoozing skills and lack of ethics could have started as a commission-based shop assistant, moved to used cars or real-estate and then a big corporate sales department, or even politics. He'd be a lot richer and more senior if he'd concentrated on the things he was good at.



          I wouldn't even worry about his clients. No one expects a salesman to be particularly knowledgeable in their field (or they'd be in research or operations rather than sales) or to be particularly honest.



          Be happy that he's found a job that suits him, and for all the research scientists who don't have to work with him.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.










          Relax. His cheating has earned him nothing except a worthless piece of paper. He knows he doesn't have the skills to do scientific research, and most likely his employer has worked it out too.



          All he's done is waste a number of years when he could have been climbing the corporate sales ladder. Someone with those smoozing skills and lack of ethics could have started as a commission-based shop assistant, moved to used cars or real-estate and then a big corporate sales department, or even politics. He'd be a lot richer and more senior if he'd concentrated on the things he was good at.



          I wouldn't even worry about his clients. No one expects a salesman to be particularly knowledgeable in their field (or they'd be in research or operations rather than sales) or to be particularly honest.



          Be happy that he's found a job that suits him, and for all the research scientists who don't have to work with him.







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 13 hours ago









          Robin BennettRobin Bennett

          2513




          2513




          New contributor




          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Robin Bennett is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.







          • 1





            You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago












          • 1





            You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago







          1




          1





          You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

          – mathreadler
          3 hours ago





          You are right. But it is problematic in several other ways. It decourages other students and erodes the value of the degrees mentioned. It is problematic for those on the pulling end of PhD degrees if real skilled students start to hop off their studies because they see that cheaters get through. If they aren't going for a postdoc any longer, then how are we going to manage to attract them to the right positions we have planned for them? Postdoc is often a really great stage of knowledge and competence for "drafting" talent.

          – mathreadler
          3 hours ago











          13














          I agree with others generally regarding your specific question about telling the school(s). You missed your chance to really stop him when you should have, at least if you cared about him not getting undeserved degrees.



          However I strongly disagree with some of these "let it go" answers, at least in terms of their lack of concern. An unqualified chemist who doesn't know the fundamentals (that their resume claims they know) can literally kill people. Stories abound of such idiots in chemistry-related industries. As for the answer extolling "hard work". A person who worked hard to be a fraud sounds like a more dangerous type of fraud to me.



          A pharmaceutical rep shouldn't be in a position to do any damage, if everyone else does their job properly. But with those credentials he is especially dangerous as people might be more trusting of a phd's claims. And let's not forget this is a guy who doesn't care about silly things like "rules" or doing things the right way.



          Your concern needs to be about the damage he can do now. And the people who would care about that are his employer. However this is beyond the scope of this forum and I really don't have an answer how to address that. It is much more specific and legal question to your situation. Generally, others are probably right that there's not much you can do at this point from afar.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

            – cag51
            yesterday











          • @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

            – A Simple Algorithm
            yesterday






          • 3





            Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

            – cag51
            21 hours ago











          • @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

            – JiK
            13 hours ago






          • 1





            @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago















          13














          I agree with others generally regarding your specific question about telling the school(s). You missed your chance to really stop him when you should have, at least if you cared about him not getting undeserved degrees.



          However I strongly disagree with some of these "let it go" answers, at least in terms of their lack of concern. An unqualified chemist who doesn't know the fundamentals (that their resume claims they know) can literally kill people. Stories abound of such idiots in chemistry-related industries. As for the answer extolling "hard work". A person who worked hard to be a fraud sounds like a more dangerous type of fraud to me.



          A pharmaceutical rep shouldn't be in a position to do any damage, if everyone else does their job properly. But with those credentials he is especially dangerous as people might be more trusting of a phd's claims. And let's not forget this is a guy who doesn't care about silly things like "rules" or doing things the right way.



          Your concern needs to be about the damage he can do now. And the people who would care about that are his employer. However this is beyond the scope of this forum and I really don't have an answer how to address that. It is much more specific and legal question to your situation. Generally, others are probably right that there's not much you can do at this point from afar.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 6





            Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

            – cag51
            yesterday











          • @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

            – A Simple Algorithm
            yesterday






          • 3





            Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

            – cag51
            21 hours ago











          • @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

            – JiK
            13 hours ago






          • 1





            @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago













          13












          13








          13







          I agree with others generally regarding your specific question about telling the school(s). You missed your chance to really stop him when you should have, at least if you cared about him not getting undeserved degrees.



          However I strongly disagree with some of these "let it go" answers, at least in terms of their lack of concern. An unqualified chemist who doesn't know the fundamentals (that their resume claims they know) can literally kill people. Stories abound of such idiots in chemistry-related industries. As for the answer extolling "hard work". A person who worked hard to be a fraud sounds like a more dangerous type of fraud to me.



          A pharmaceutical rep shouldn't be in a position to do any damage, if everyone else does their job properly. But with those credentials he is especially dangerous as people might be more trusting of a phd's claims. And let's not forget this is a guy who doesn't care about silly things like "rules" or doing things the right way.



          Your concern needs to be about the damage he can do now. And the people who would care about that are his employer. However this is beyond the scope of this forum and I really don't have an answer how to address that. It is much more specific and legal question to your situation. Generally, others are probably right that there's not much you can do at this point from afar.






          share|improve this answer















          I agree with others generally regarding your specific question about telling the school(s). You missed your chance to really stop him when you should have, at least if you cared about him not getting undeserved degrees.



          However I strongly disagree with some of these "let it go" answers, at least in terms of their lack of concern. An unqualified chemist who doesn't know the fundamentals (that their resume claims they know) can literally kill people. Stories abound of such idiots in chemistry-related industries. As for the answer extolling "hard work". A person who worked hard to be a fraud sounds like a more dangerous type of fraud to me.



          A pharmaceutical rep shouldn't be in a position to do any damage, if everyone else does their job properly. But with those credentials he is especially dangerous as people might be more trusting of a phd's claims. And let's not forget this is a guy who doesn't care about silly things like "rules" or doing things the right way.



          Your concern needs to be about the damage he can do now. And the people who would care about that are his employer. However this is beyond the scope of this forum and I really don't have an answer how to address that. It is much more specific and legal question to your situation. Generally, others are probably right that there's not much you can do at this point from afar.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          A Simple AlgorithmA Simple Algorithm

          2,114211




          2,114211







          • 6





            Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

            – cag51
            yesterday











          • @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

            – A Simple Algorithm
            yesterday






          • 3





            Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

            – cag51
            21 hours ago











          • @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

            – JiK
            13 hours ago






          • 1





            @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago












          • 6





            Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

            – cag51
            yesterday











          • @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

            – A Simple Algorithm
            yesterday






          • 3





            Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

            – cag51
            21 hours ago











          • @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

            – JiK
            13 hours ago






          • 1





            @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

            – mathreadler
            3 hours ago







          6




          6





          Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

          – cag51
          yesterday





          Yes, incompetent chemists working in healthcare is scary -- OP should have stopped this back when they had the chance. But now OP has no way to prove these allegations, so they have no choice but to let it go.

          – cag51
          yesterday













          @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

          – A Simple Algorithm
          yesterday





          @cag51 fair point. But what I meant was this is not really for a bunch of academics to advise about. I'll edit a bit to clarify this.

          – A Simple Algorithm
          yesterday




          3




          3





          Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

          – cag51
          21 hours ago





          Hmm, I still don't think it's fair to say that the other answers demonstrate a "lack of concern." We are all academics, and many of us have taught the types of classes that this guy cheated his way through. Many of us would love to punch this guy! At least if the facts are as OP says. But concerned or not, there is nothing to be done here -- no evidence.

          – cag51
          21 hours ago













          @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

          – JiK
          13 hours ago





          @cag51 If the dude is really incompetent in his job, then there is a chance that his employer notices it and doesn't need any evidence of his earlier wrongdoings. And there might be a legal way to help the employer notice it, no evidence needed.

          – JiK
          13 hours ago




          1




          1





          @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

          – mathreadler
          3 hours ago





          @JiK Without evidence it could count as defamation or slander. Now I am no lawyer, but as far as I know it can be a criminal act to talk shit about people without proof.

          – mathreadler
          3 hours ago











          4















          I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.




          If you have no evidence of wrongdoing then, even if you decided to do something, there is really not much you could legitimately do. Allegations of the type you are making are serious, and would require evidence. If you are confident that you would not be able to obtain corroborating evidence of your assertions, then there is really no reasonable prospect of any successful action against this person. So yes, in the absence of any evidence of the asserted wrongdoing, he has gotten away with it.



          As to the possibility of telling his employer, if you make adverse allegations in this way, and they cause this person employment damage, this could potentially give rise to a legal action against you for defamation. There is a "defence of truth" in such actions, but this requires to person making allegations to prove these on the balance of probabilities. If you are considering doing this you should first seek legal advice.






          share|improve this answer



























            4















            I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.




            If you have no evidence of wrongdoing then, even if you decided to do something, there is really not much you could legitimately do. Allegations of the type you are making are serious, and would require evidence. If you are confident that you would not be able to obtain corroborating evidence of your assertions, then there is really no reasonable prospect of any successful action against this person. So yes, in the absence of any evidence of the asserted wrongdoing, he has gotten away with it.



            As to the possibility of telling his employer, if you make adverse allegations in this way, and they cause this person employment damage, this could potentially give rise to a legal action against you for defamation. There is a "defence of truth" in such actions, but this requires to person making allegations to prove these on the balance of probabilities. If you are considering doing this you should first seek legal advice.






            share|improve this answer

























              4












              4








              4








              I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.




              If you have no evidence of wrongdoing then, even if you decided to do something, there is really not much you could legitimately do. Allegations of the type you are making are serious, and would require evidence. If you are confident that you would not be able to obtain corroborating evidence of your assertions, then there is really no reasonable prospect of any successful action against this person. So yes, in the absence of any evidence of the asserted wrongdoing, he has gotten away with it.



              As to the possibility of telling his employer, if you make adverse allegations in this way, and they cause this person employment damage, this could potentially give rise to a legal action against you for defamation. There is a "defence of truth" in such actions, but this requires to person making allegations to prove these on the balance of probabilities. If you are considering doing this you should first seek legal advice.






              share|improve this answer














              I have no way to prove anything. I'm sure none of those guys that took his tests for him will come forward and tell the truth. He has gotten away with fraud.




              If you have no evidence of wrongdoing then, even if you decided to do something, there is really not much you could legitimately do. Allegations of the type you are making are serious, and would require evidence. If you are confident that you would not be able to obtain corroborating evidence of your assertions, then there is really no reasonable prospect of any successful action against this person. So yes, in the absence of any evidence of the asserted wrongdoing, he has gotten away with it.



              As to the possibility of telling his employer, if you make adverse allegations in this way, and they cause this person employment damage, this could potentially give rise to a legal action against you for defamation. There is a "defence of truth" in such actions, but this requires to person making allegations to prove these on the balance of probabilities. If you are considering doing this you should first seek legal advice.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 20 hours ago









              BenBen

              14.3k33565




              14.3k33565





















                  1














                  I mean there is nothing actionable you have now, but this dude clearly doesn't care about rules, and I'm sure he cheats in some capacity again, so you catch him in his most recent round of cheating (seems like a lot of work) or you just reveal his basic lack of chem knowledge somehow (also seems like a lot of work).






                  share|improve this answer



























                    1














                    I mean there is nothing actionable you have now, but this dude clearly doesn't care about rules, and I'm sure he cheats in some capacity again, so you catch him in his most recent round of cheating (seems like a lot of work) or you just reveal his basic lack of chem knowledge somehow (also seems like a lot of work).






                    share|improve this answer

























                      1












                      1








                      1







                      I mean there is nothing actionable you have now, but this dude clearly doesn't care about rules, and I'm sure he cheats in some capacity again, so you catch him in his most recent round of cheating (seems like a lot of work) or you just reveal his basic lack of chem knowledge somehow (also seems like a lot of work).






                      share|improve this answer













                      I mean there is nothing actionable you have now, but this dude clearly doesn't care about rules, and I'm sure he cheats in some capacity again, so you catch him in his most recent round of cheating (seems like a lot of work) or you just reveal his basic lack of chem knowledge somehow (also seems like a lot of work).







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 23 hours ago









                      JCoolJCool

                      1242




                      1242





















                          1















                          I have no way to prove anything.




                          Then it is unclear to me why you are asking years after you could have done something,

                          like tipping off people who would be involved in his defense.




                          He has gotten away with fraud.




                          A lot of people do.

                          A friend of mine is a laughing stock within his family because it took him years longer to finish his degree than his cousin who did it in four years (plus summer school).



                          Except that the cousin didn't finish in 4 years, in fact he didn't even finish.

                          Their university allows people to "walk" in May if they can graduate using summer school.

                          He registered for the summer school courses, invited his family to see him walk, walked (with them watching), dropped the courses, and got his parents money back.



                          He doesn't have the degree like your relative does, but since everyone in his family thinks he does it is kind'a the same thing.



                          Let it go.






                          share|improve this answer



























                            1















                            I have no way to prove anything.




                            Then it is unclear to me why you are asking years after you could have done something,

                            like tipping off people who would be involved in his defense.




                            He has gotten away with fraud.




                            A lot of people do.

                            A friend of mine is a laughing stock within his family because it took him years longer to finish his degree than his cousin who did it in four years (plus summer school).



                            Except that the cousin didn't finish in 4 years, in fact he didn't even finish.

                            Their university allows people to "walk" in May if they can graduate using summer school.

                            He registered for the summer school courses, invited his family to see him walk, walked (with them watching), dropped the courses, and got his parents money back.



                            He doesn't have the degree like your relative does, but since everyone in his family thinks he does it is kind'a the same thing.



                            Let it go.






                            share|improve this answer

























                              1












                              1








                              1








                              I have no way to prove anything.




                              Then it is unclear to me why you are asking years after you could have done something,

                              like tipping off people who would be involved in his defense.




                              He has gotten away with fraud.




                              A lot of people do.

                              A friend of mine is a laughing stock within his family because it took him years longer to finish his degree than his cousin who did it in four years (plus summer school).



                              Except that the cousin didn't finish in 4 years, in fact he didn't even finish.

                              Their university allows people to "walk" in May if they can graduate using summer school.

                              He registered for the summer school courses, invited his family to see him walk, walked (with them watching), dropped the courses, and got his parents money back.



                              He doesn't have the degree like your relative does, but since everyone in his family thinks he does it is kind'a the same thing.



                              Let it go.






                              share|improve this answer














                              I have no way to prove anything.




                              Then it is unclear to me why you are asking years after you could have done something,

                              like tipping off people who would be involved in his defense.




                              He has gotten away with fraud.




                              A lot of people do.

                              A friend of mine is a laughing stock within his family because it took him years longer to finish his degree than his cousin who did it in four years (plus summer school).



                              Except that the cousin didn't finish in 4 years, in fact he didn't even finish.

                              Their university allows people to "walk" in May if they can graduate using summer school.

                              He registered for the summer school courses, invited his family to see him walk, walked (with them watching), dropped the courses, and got his parents money back.



                              He doesn't have the degree like your relative does, but since everyone in his family thinks he does it is kind'a the same thing.



                              Let it go.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 3 hours ago









                              J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton

                              70929




                              70929





















                                  0














                                  I think an important point is clearly missing in the other answers:



                                  If the goal of a PhD is to make science going forward, he reached the goal ! Perhaps in a non standard way and, in my opinion, by far not the easiest way. Nevertheless research went (a bit) forward thanks to his ability of making other people work for him.



                                  So, not only you should let it go, but I think you should also respect the fact that he could "cheat" a whole study plus PhD which sounds like an almost impossible task for me.



                                  Maybe you should suggest him to do a degree in management. Sounds like it would really fit him.






                                  share|improve this answer





























                                    0














                                    I think an important point is clearly missing in the other answers:



                                    If the goal of a PhD is to make science going forward, he reached the goal ! Perhaps in a non standard way and, in my opinion, by far not the easiest way. Nevertheless research went (a bit) forward thanks to his ability of making other people work for him.



                                    So, not only you should let it go, but I think you should also respect the fact that he could "cheat" a whole study plus PhD which sounds like an almost impossible task for me.



                                    Maybe you should suggest him to do a degree in management. Sounds like it would really fit him.






                                    share|improve this answer



























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0







                                      I think an important point is clearly missing in the other answers:



                                      If the goal of a PhD is to make science going forward, he reached the goal ! Perhaps in a non standard way and, in my opinion, by far not the easiest way. Nevertheless research went (a bit) forward thanks to his ability of making other people work for him.



                                      So, not only you should let it go, but I think you should also respect the fact that he could "cheat" a whole study plus PhD which sounds like an almost impossible task for me.



                                      Maybe you should suggest him to do a degree in management. Sounds like it would really fit him.






                                      share|improve this answer















                                      I think an important point is clearly missing in the other answers:



                                      If the goal of a PhD is to make science going forward, he reached the goal ! Perhaps in a non standard way and, in my opinion, by far not the easiest way. Nevertheless research went (a bit) forward thanks to his ability of making other people work for him.



                                      So, not only you should let it go, but I think you should also respect the fact that he could "cheat" a whole study plus PhD which sounds like an almost impossible task for me.



                                      Maybe you should suggest him to do a degree in management. Sounds like it would really fit him.







                                      share|improve this answer














                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer








                                      edited 13 hours ago

























                                      answered 14 hours ago









                                      YYYYYY

                                      35728




                                      35728















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