Does Feeblemind produce an ongoing magical effect that can be dispelled? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraWith the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium release, are Jeremy Crawford's tweets considered to be “official rulings”?Will the paladin's Cleansing Touch or the Arcana cleric's Spell Breaker feature end the Feeblemind spell?What happens when you target a “magical effect” with Dispel Magic?Can True Polymorph be dispelled or reversed?Can Dispel magic be used on a readied spell before the trigger occurs?What can interrupt/prevent an instantaneous spell such as Fireball?How does a Dispel Magic attached to a Hallow or Unhallow effect work?How *exactly* does Dispel Magic work against magical effects?Does Magical Ambush affect Area of Effect spells?What happens if I use Dispel Magic on a magic item?Will casting Dispel Magic on one construct from Animate Objects end the animation of all the constructs?Can this Wish effect be dispelled?

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Does Feeblemind produce an ongoing magical effect that can be dispelled?



Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraWith the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium release, are Jeremy Crawford's tweets considered to be “official rulings”?Will the paladin's Cleansing Touch or the Arcana cleric's Spell Breaker feature end the Feeblemind spell?What happens when you target a “magical effect” with Dispel Magic?Can True Polymorph be dispelled or reversed?Can Dispel magic be used on a readied spell before the trigger occurs?What can interrupt/prevent an instantaneous spell such as Fireball?How does a Dispel Magic attached to a Hallow or Unhallow effect work?How *exactly* does Dispel Magic work against magical effects?Does Magical Ambush affect Area of Effect spells?What happens if I use Dispel Magic on a magic item?Will casting Dispel Magic on one construct from Animate Objects end the animation of all the constructs?Can this Wish effect be dispelled?



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22












$begingroup$


Feeblemind has a duration of instantaneous. However, it also produces an ongoing effect, and the spell's text describes when this effect ends (emphasis added):




At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




The fact that the text refers to the spell ending, as opposed to just "the effect" or something similar, implies that it produces an ongoing magical spell effect, which can be dispelled using Dispel Magic. However, it has also been argued that any effects that persist beyond a spell's stated duration cannot be considered magical (with the classic example being fires started by a Fireball spell). Applying this rule to Feeblemind, it shouldn't have any ongoing effects since its duration is instantaneous. So, which is it? Are the ongoing effects of Feeblemind considered magical and therefore susceptible to effects like Dispel Magic, or are are they simply the lingering result of the initial shattering of the creature's intellect and personality?



(Note that the final sentence quoted above does not by itself rule out Dispel Magic and other ways of ending the spell. It gives additional options for ending the spell, but it doesn't say these are the only options.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Alk As was I...see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago

















22












$begingroup$


Feeblemind has a duration of instantaneous. However, it also produces an ongoing effect, and the spell's text describes when this effect ends (emphasis added):




At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




The fact that the text refers to the spell ending, as opposed to just "the effect" or something similar, implies that it produces an ongoing magical spell effect, which can be dispelled using Dispel Magic. However, it has also been argued that any effects that persist beyond a spell's stated duration cannot be considered magical (with the classic example being fires started by a Fireball spell). Applying this rule to Feeblemind, it shouldn't have any ongoing effects since its duration is instantaneous. So, which is it? Are the ongoing effects of Feeblemind considered magical and therefore susceptible to effects like Dispel Magic, or are are they simply the lingering result of the initial shattering of the creature's intellect and personality?



(Note that the final sentence quoted above does not by itself rule out Dispel Magic and other ways of ending the spell. It gives additional options for ending the spell, but it doesn't say these are the only options.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Alk As was I...see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago













22












22








22





$begingroup$


Feeblemind has a duration of instantaneous. However, it also produces an ongoing effect, and the spell's text describes when this effect ends (emphasis added):




At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




The fact that the text refers to the spell ending, as opposed to just "the effect" or something similar, implies that it produces an ongoing magical spell effect, which can be dispelled using Dispel Magic. However, it has also been argued that any effects that persist beyond a spell's stated duration cannot be considered magical (with the classic example being fires started by a Fireball spell). Applying this rule to Feeblemind, it shouldn't have any ongoing effects since its duration is instantaneous. So, which is it? Are the ongoing effects of Feeblemind considered magical and therefore susceptible to effects like Dispel Magic, or are are they simply the lingering result of the initial shattering of the creature's intellect and personality?



(Note that the final sentence quoted above does not by itself rule out Dispel Magic and other ways of ending the spell. It gives additional options for ending the spell, but it doesn't say these are the only options.)










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Feeblemind has a duration of instantaneous. However, it also produces an ongoing effect, and the spell's text describes when this effect ends (emphasis added):




At the end of every 30 days, the creature can repeat its saving throw against this spell. If it succeeds on its saving throw, the spell ends.



The spell can also be ended by greater restoration, heal, or wish.




The fact that the text refers to the spell ending, as opposed to just "the effect" or something similar, implies that it produces an ongoing magical spell effect, which can be dispelled using Dispel Magic. However, it has also been argued that any effects that persist beyond a spell's stated duration cannot be considered magical (with the classic example being fires started by a Fireball spell). Applying this rule to Feeblemind, it shouldn't have any ongoing effects since its duration is instantaneous. So, which is it? Are the ongoing effects of Feeblemind considered magical and therefore susceptible to effects like Dispel Magic, or are are they simply the lingering result of the initial shattering of the creature's intellect and personality?



(Note that the final sentence quoted above does not by itself rule out Dispel Magic and other ways of ending the spell. It gives additional options for ending the spell, but it doesn't say these are the only options.)







dnd-5e spells






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




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edited 2 hours ago









V2Blast

27.8k598169




27.8k598169










asked 9 hours ago









Ryan ThompsonRyan Thompson

12.4k24293




12.4k24293







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Alk As was I...see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago












  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    8 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Alk As was I...see this question.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago







1




1




$begingroup$
I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
$endgroup$
– Alk
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
I have been wondering the same thing but with the Arcana Clerics 6th level skill Spell Breaker
$endgroup$
– Alk
8 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Alk As was I...see this question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
@Alk As was I...see this question.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
6 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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$begingroup$


Feeblemind can't be dispelled



The feeblemind spell has an instantaneous duration which means specifically:




The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.



--- Player's Handbook on Instantaneous duration, p. 203




This is specifically supported by designer intent in a (now unofficial) tweet by Jeremy Crawford.




A spell that has a duration of instantaneous can't be dispelled.




and also this tweet:




The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods
specified in the spell.




The most likely fix to the ambiguity would to rephrase (or interpret) the later clauses to 'the spell's effect ends'. The game does not always make a distinction between the two terms. Specifically the spell Leomund's secret chest (in the SRD as secret chest) is also instantaneous and includes the paragraph (emphasis mine):




After 60 days, there is a cumulative 5 percent chance per day that the spell's effect ends. This effect ends if you cast this spell again, if the smaller replica chest is destroyed, or if you choose to end the spell as an action. [...]



--- Player's Handbook, p. 254




Here both ending the spell's effect and ending the spell are used to describe the same thing, which is similar to that of feeblemind. Likely if the effect of feeblemind was to be dispellable it's duration would have been listed as 'Until Dispelled' or something similar, like with transmute rock or magic jar.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    5 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    4 hours ago


















0












$begingroup$

Yes, Dispel Magic works (but only after a successful Spellcasting Ability Check)



You've quoted the relevant parts of the spell: a creature that succeeds on their latent saving throw "ends the spell". That wouldn't be possible if the effect weren't being maintained by an active "Spell Effect"; therefore, the ongoing effect of Feeblemind must constitute a Spell Effect, dispellable by Dispel Magic. This constitutes a "Specific beats General" exception to the normal rule that Instantaneous Spells must not be dispellable.



The catch, of course, is that Feeblemind, as an 8th level spell, is difficult to remove. Someone trying to dispel it using Dispel Magic would have to either cast Dispel Magic as an 8th level spell, or else pass the Spellcasting Ability check to dispel it; and at a DC of 18, that can be difficult, considering that "Spellcasting Ability check"s don't use the caster's proficiency modifier, and because Dispel Magic does not have material components, certain kinds of magic items (like a +1 Wand, used as an Arcane Focus) would not benefit this check.



Other kinds of magic items might count though; check the item description to find out whether it requires that it be actively used as a focus to confer the benefits or not.



This is why the alternate methods of removing the spell, like Heal, Greater Restoration, or Wish, are a major benefit: they're guaranteed to successfully remove the effect without needing to pass a check, making them under certain circumstances (especially time-constrained circumstances or spell-slot constrained circumstances) much better options for removing this kind of effect. If these options were not listed, then it would be far more difficult to remove this effect.



The Intent is that only the three spells listed are valid to remove the effect




The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods specified in the spell. #DnD



Jeremy Crawford, Twitter, 2017-04-03@3:51PM EDT




So at least from the informal perspective of the Lead Rules Designer, the spell should only be removable by those three spells listed above.



I maintain, however, from a Rules-as-Written perspective, that because the spell describes the successful saving throw as ending the spell, it is therefore the case that until errata or a Sage Advice compendium comes out that specifically adjudicates against this, Dispel Magic (and other effects that "end active spells") are valid against Feeblemind.






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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






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    active

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    16












    $begingroup$


    Feeblemind can't be dispelled



    The feeblemind spell has an instantaneous duration which means specifically:




    The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.



    --- Player's Handbook on Instantaneous duration, p. 203




    This is specifically supported by designer intent in a (now unofficial) tweet by Jeremy Crawford.




    A spell that has a duration of instantaneous can't be dispelled.




    and also this tweet:




    The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods
    specified in the spell.




    The most likely fix to the ambiguity would to rephrase (or interpret) the later clauses to 'the spell's effect ends'. The game does not always make a distinction between the two terms. Specifically the spell Leomund's secret chest (in the SRD as secret chest) is also instantaneous and includes the paragraph (emphasis mine):




    After 60 days, there is a cumulative 5 percent chance per day that the spell's effect ends. This effect ends if you cast this spell again, if the smaller replica chest is destroyed, or if you choose to end the spell as an action. [...]



    --- Player's Handbook, p. 254




    Here both ending the spell's effect and ending the spell are used to describe the same thing, which is similar to that of feeblemind. Likely if the effect of feeblemind was to be dispellable it's duration would have been listed as 'Until Dispelled' or something similar, like with transmute rock or magic jar.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
      $endgroup$
      – Ryan Thompson
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      4 hours ago















    16












    $begingroup$


    Feeblemind can't be dispelled



    The feeblemind spell has an instantaneous duration which means specifically:




    The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.



    --- Player's Handbook on Instantaneous duration, p. 203




    This is specifically supported by designer intent in a (now unofficial) tweet by Jeremy Crawford.




    A spell that has a duration of instantaneous can't be dispelled.




    and also this tweet:




    The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods
    specified in the spell.




    The most likely fix to the ambiguity would to rephrase (or interpret) the later clauses to 'the spell's effect ends'. The game does not always make a distinction between the two terms. Specifically the spell Leomund's secret chest (in the SRD as secret chest) is also instantaneous and includes the paragraph (emphasis mine):




    After 60 days, there is a cumulative 5 percent chance per day that the spell's effect ends. This effect ends if you cast this spell again, if the smaller replica chest is destroyed, or if you choose to end the spell as an action. [...]



    --- Player's Handbook, p. 254




    Here both ending the spell's effect and ending the spell are used to describe the same thing, which is similar to that of feeblemind. Likely if the effect of feeblemind was to be dispellable it's duration would have been listed as 'Until Dispelled' or something similar, like with transmute rock or magic jar.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
      $endgroup$
      – Ryan Thompson
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      4 hours ago













    16












    16








    16





    $begingroup$


    Feeblemind can't be dispelled



    The feeblemind spell has an instantaneous duration which means specifically:




    The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.



    --- Player's Handbook on Instantaneous duration, p. 203




    This is specifically supported by designer intent in a (now unofficial) tweet by Jeremy Crawford.




    A spell that has a duration of instantaneous can't be dispelled.




    and also this tweet:




    The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods
    specified in the spell.




    The most likely fix to the ambiguity would to rephrase (or interpret) the later clauses to 'the spell's effect ends'. The game does not always make a distinction between the two terms. Specifically the spell Leomund's secret chest (in the SRD as secret chest) is also instantaneous and includes the paragraph (emphasis mine):




    After 60 days, there is a cumulative 5 percent chance per day that the spell's effect ends. This effect ends if you cast this spell again, if the smaller replica chest is destroyed, or if you choose to end the spell as an action. [...]



    --- Player's Handbook, p. 254




    Here both ending the spell's effect and ending the spell are used to describe the same thing, which is similar to that of feeblemind. Likely if the effect of feeblemind was to be dispellable it's duration would have been listed as 'Until Dispelled' or something similar, like with transmute rock or magic jar.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




    Feeblemind can't be dispelled



    The feeblemind spell has an instantaneous duration which means specifically:




    The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.



    --- Player's Handbook on Instantaneous duration, p. 203




    This is specifically supported by designer intent in a (now unofficial) tweet by Jeremy Crawford.




    A spell that has a duration of instantaneous can't be dispelled.




    and also this tweet:




    The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods
    specified in the spell.




    The most likely fix to the ambiguity would to rephrase (or interpret) the later clauses to 'the spell's effect ends'. The game does not always make a distinction between the two terms. Specifically the spell Leomund's secret chest (in the SRD as secret chest) is also instantaneous and includes the paragraph (emphasis mine):




    After 60 days, there is a cumulative 5 percent chance per day that the spell's effect ends. This effect ends if you cast this spell again, if the smaller replica chest is destroyed, or if you choose to end the spell as an action. [...]



    --- Player's Handbook, p. 254




    Here both ending the spell's effect and ending the spell are used to describe the same thing, which is similar to that of feeblemind. Likely if the effect of feeblemind was to be dispellable it's duration would have been listed as 'Until Dispelled' or something similar, like with transmute rock or magic jar.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 2 hours ago









    V2Blast

    27.8k598169




    27.8k598169










    answered 7 hours ago









    Someone_EvilSomeone_Evil

    3,394832




    3,394832







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
      $endgroup$
      – Ryan Thompson
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      4 hours ago












    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
      $endgroup$
      – Ryan Thompson
      6 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      5 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
      $endgroup$
      – xxbbcc
      4 hours ago







    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I think the fact that the rules don't consistently distinguish between "spell" and "spell effect" is an important and relevant point.
    $endgroup$
    – Ryan Thompson
    6 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I'm just curious: why did you write "now unofficial" when you quoted Jeremy Crawford?
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    5 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @xxbbcc Check out this Q&A for the answer to that. :-)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    5 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Rubiksmoose Ah, thank you. I was not aware of that.
    $endgroup$
    – xxbbcc
    4 hours ago













    0












    $begingroup$

    Yes, Dispel Magic works (but only after a successful Spellcasting Ability Check)



    You've quoted the relevant parts of the spell: a creature that succeeds on their latent saving throw "ends the spell". That wouldn't be possible if the effect weren't being maintained by an active "Spell Effect"; therefore, the ongoing effect of Feeblemind must constitute a Spell Effect, dispellable by Dispel Magic. This constitutes a "Specific beats General" exception to the normal rule that Instantaneous Spells must not be dispellable.



    The catch, of course, is that Feeblemind, as an 8th level spell, is difficult to remove. Someone trying to dispel it using Dispel Magic would have to either cast Dispel Magic as an 8th level spell, or else pass the Spellcasting Ability check to dispel it; and at a DC of 18, that can be difficult, considering that "Spellcasting Ability check"s don't use the caster's proficiency modifier, and because Dispel Magic does not have material components, certain kinds of magic items (like a +1 Wand, used as an Arcane Focus) would not benefit this check.



    Other kinds of magic items might count though; check the item description to find out whether it requires that it be actively used as a focus to confer the benefits or not.



    This is why the alternate methods of removing the spell, like Heal, Greater Restoration, or Wish, are a major benefit: they're guaranteed to successfully remove the effect without needing to pass a check, making them under certain circumstances (especially time-constrained circumstances or spell-slot constrained circumstances) much better options for removing this kind of effect. If these options were not listed, then it would be far more difficult to remove this effect.



    The Intent is that only the three spells listed are valid to remove the effect




    The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods specified in the spell. #DnD



    Jeremy Crawford, Twitter, 2017-04-03@3:51PM EDT




    So at least from the informal perspective of the Lead Rules Designer, the spell should only be removable by those three spells listed above.



    I maintain, however, from a Rules-as-Written perspective, that because the spell describes the successful saving throw as ending the spell, it is therefore the case that until errata or a Sage Advice compendium comes out that specifically adjudicates against this, Dispel Magic (and other effects that "end active spells") are valid against Feeblemind.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      Yes, Dispel Magic works (but only after a successful Spellcasting Ability Check)



      You've quoted the relevant parts of the spell: a creature that succeeds on their latent saving throw "ends the spell". That wouldn't be possible if the effect weren't being maintained by an active "Spell Effect"; therefore, the ongoing effect of Feeblemind must constitute a Spell Effect, dispellable by Dispel Magic. This constitutes a "Specific beats General" exception to the normal rule that Instantaneous Spells must not be dispellable.



      The catch, of course, is that Feeblemind, as an 8th level spell, is difficult to remove. Someone trying to dispel it using Dispel Magic would have to either cast Dispel Magic as an 8th level spell, or else pass the Spellcasting Ability check to dispel it; and at a DC of 18, that can be difficult, considering that "Spellcasting Ability check"s don't use the caster's proficiency modifier, and because Dispel Magic does not have material components, certain kinds of magic items (like a +1 Wand, used as an Arcane Focus) would not benefit this check.



      Other kinds of magic items might count though; check the item description to find out whether it requires that it be actively used as a focus to confer the benefits or not.



      This is why the alternate methods of removing the spell, like Heal, Greater Restoration, or Wish, are a major benefit: they're guaranteed to successfully remove the effect without needing to pass a check, making them under certain circumstances (especially time-constrained circumstances or spell-slot constrained circumstances) much better options for removing this kind of effect. If these options were not listed, then it would be far more difficult to remove this effect.



      The Intent is that only the three spells listed are valid to remove the effect




      The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods specified in the spell. #DnD



      Jeremy Crawford, Twitter, 2017-04-03@3:51PM EDT




      So at least from the informal perspective of the Lead Rules Designer, the spell should only be removable by those three spells listed above.



      I maintain, however, from a Rules-as-Written perspective, that because the spell describes the successful saving throw as ending the spell, it is therefore the case that until errata or a Sage Advice compendium comes out that specifically adjudicates against this, Dispel Magic (and other effects that "end active spells") are valid against Feeblemind.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        Yes, Dispel Magic works (but only after a successful Spellcasting Ability Check)



        You've quoted the relevant parts of the spell: a creature that succeeds on their latent saving throw "ends the spell". That wouldn't be possible if the effect weren't being maintained by an active "Spell Effect"; therefore, the ongoing effect of Feeblemind must constitute a Spell Effect, dispellable by Dispel Magic. This constitutes a "Specific beats General" exception to the normal rule that Instantaneous Spells must not be dispellable.



        The catch, of course, is that Feeblemind, as an 8th level spell, is difficult to remove. Someone trying to dispel it using Dispel Magic would have to either cast Dispel Magic as an 8th level spell, or else pass the Spellcasting Ability check to dispel it; and at a DC of 18, that can be difficult, considering that "Spellcasting Ability check"s don't use the caster's proficiency modifier, and because Dispel Magic does not have material components, certain kinds of magic items (like a +1 Wand, used as an Arcane Focus) would not benefit this check.



        Other kinds of magic items might count though; check the item description to find out whether it requires that it be actively used as a focus to confer the benefits or not.



        This is why the alternate methods of removing the spell, like Heal, Greater Restoration, or Wish, are a major benefit: they're guaranteed to successfully remove the effect without needing to pass a check, making them under certain circumstances (especially time-constrained circumstances or spell-slot constrained circumstances) much better options for removing this kind of effect. If these options were not listed, then it would be far more difficult to remove this effect.



        The Intent is that only the three spells listed are valid to remove the effect




        The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods specified in the spell. #DnD



        Jeremy Crawford, Twitter, 2017-04-03@3:51PM EDT




        So at least from the informal perspective of the Lead Rules Designer, the spell should only be removable by those three spells listed above.



        I maintain, however, from a Rules-as-Written perspective, that because the spell describes the successful saving throw as ending the spell, it is therefore the case that until errata or a Sage Advice compendium comes out that specifically adjudicates against this, Dispel Magic (and other effects that "end active spells") are valid against Feeblemind.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Yes, Dispel Magic works (but only after a successful Spellcasting Ability Check)



        You've quoted the relevant parts of the spell: a creature that succeeds on their latent saving throw "ends the spell". That wouldn't be possible if the effect weren't being maintained by an active "Spell Effect"; therefore, the ongoing effect of Feeblemind must constitute a Spell Effect, dispellable by Dispel Magic. This constitutes a "Specific beats General" exception to the normal rule that Instantaneous Spells must not be dispellable.



        The catch, of course, is that Feeblemind, as an 8th level spell, is difficult to remove. Someone trying to dispel it using Dispel Magic would have to either cast Dispel Magic as an 8th level spell, or else pass the Spellcasting Ability check to dispel it; and at a DC of 18, that can be difficult, considering that "Spellcasting Ability check"s don't use the caster's proficiency modifier, and because Dispel Magic does not have material components, certain kinds of magic items (like a +1 Wand, used as an Arcane Focus) would not benefit this check.



        Other kinds of magic items might count though; check the item description to find out whether it requires that it be actively used as a focus to confer the benefits or not.



        This is why the alternate methods of removing the spell, like Heal, Greater Restoration, or Wish, are a major benefit: they're guaranteed to successfully remove the effect without needing to pass a check, making them under certain circumstances (especially time-constrained circumstances or spell-slot constrained circumstances) much better options for removing this kind of effect. If these options were not listed, then it would be far more difficult to remove this effect.



        The Intent is that only the three spells listed are valid to remove the effect




        The intent is that feeblemind can be ended only by the methods specified in the spell. #DnD



        Jeremy Crawford, Twitter, 2017-04-03@3:51PM EDT




        So at least from the informal perspective of the Lead Rules Designer, the spell should only be removable by those three spells listed above.



        I maintain, however, from a Rules-as-Written perspective, that because the spell describes the successful saving throw as ending the spell, it is therefore the case that until errata or a Sage Advice compendium comes out that specifically adjudicates against this, Dispel Magic (and other effects that "end active spells") are valid against Feeblemind.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited 6 hours ago

























        answered 6 hours ago









        XiremaXirema

        25.1k371147




        25.1k371147



























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