Why we can't differentiate both sides of a polynomial equation? [duplicate] Announcing the...

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Why we can't differentiate both sides of a polynomial equation? [duplicate]



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed?It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides?When is differentiating an equation valid?false proof of 2 =1, need confirmationImplicit differentiation. If $sin y=2sin x$, show $(frac{dy}{dx})^2=1 + 3sec^2y$Sketch parametric curveWhy can't one implicitly differentiate these two relations?Simple system of two nonhomogeneous ordinary differential equations solved by elimination. (Ex 3.1-2)How to solve this implicit differentiation problem concerning arcsin?Solving $sin x = x^3-2x^2+1$ using Newton's MethodWhen is it allowed to do operations like 'differentiating both sides', 'integrating both sides'?$cos(frac{2 pi}{n}) = 1 forall n geq 1$? Need help in finding my mistake.A weird differentiation question.Why can't I sub $a=0$ into this expression?












7












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed? [duplicate]

    9 answers



  • When is differentiating an equation valid?

    2 answers



  • It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides? [duplicate]

    5 answers




Suppose we had the equation below and we are going to differentiate it both sides:
begin{align}
&2x^2-x=1\
&4x-1=0\
&4=0
end{align}



This problem doesn't seems to happens with other equation like $ln x =1$ or $sin x = 0$, we can keep differentiating these two without getting "$4=0$", for example. This why I asked about polynomials.



PS: I'm not trying to solve any of these equations by differentiating then. But differentiation or integration helps and solving equations?



I remember that sometimes to solve trigonometry equtions like $sin x = cos x$ we had to square both side so we could use the identity $sin^2x + cos^2x =1$. Even thought squaring appears to make it worse because we have a new root.










share|cite|improve this question











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Mar 24 at 23:45


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 18




    $begingroup$
    The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    Mar 24 at 19:38








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Mar 24 at 19:43












  • $begingroup$
    You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:56












  • $begingroup$
    Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
    $endgroup$
    – Eric Towers
    Mar 24 at 22:52
















7












$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed? [duplicate]

    9 answers



  • When is differentiating an equation valid?

    2 answers



  • It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides? [duplicate]

    5 answers




Suppose we had the equation below and we are going to differentiate it both sides:
begin{align}
&2x^2-x=1\
&4x-1=0\
&4=0
end{align}



This problem doesn't seems to happens with other equation like $ln x =1$ or $sin x = 0$, we can keep differentiating these two without getting "$4=0$", for example. This why I asked about polynomials.



PS: I'm not trying to solve any of these equations by differentiating then. But differentiation or integration helps and solving equations?



I remember that sometimes to solve trigonometry equtions like $sin x = cos x$ we had to square both side so we could use the identity $sin^2x + cos^2x =1$. Even thought squaring appears to make it worse because we have a new root.










share|cite|improve this question











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marked as duplicate by Eric Wofsey real-analysis
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Mar 24 at 23:45


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • 18




    $begingroup$
    The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    Mar 24 at 19:38








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Mar 24 at 19:43












  • $begingroup$
    You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:56












  • $begingroup$
    Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
    $endgroup$
    – Eric Towers
    Mar 24 at 22:52














7












7








7





$begingroup$



This question already has an answer here:




  • Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed? [duplicate]

    9 answers



  • When is differentiating an equation valid?

    2 answers



  • It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides? [duplicate]

    5 answers




Suppose we had the equation below and we are going to differentiate it both sides:
begin{align}
&2x^2-x=1\
&4x-1=0\
&4=0
end{align}



This problem doesn't seems to happens with other equation like $ln x =1$ or $sin x = 0$, we can keep differentiating these two without getting "$4=0$", for example. This why I asked about polynomials.



PS: I'm not trying to solve any of these equations by differentiating then. But differentiation or integration helps and solving equations?



I remember that sometimes to solve trigonometry equtions like $sin x = cos x$ we had to square both side so we could use the identity $sin^2x + cos^2x =1$. Even thought squaring appears to make it worse because we have a new root.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





This question already has an answer here:




  • Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed? [duplicate]

    9 answers



  • When is differentiating an equation valid?

    2 answers



  • It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides? [duplicate]

    5 answers




Suppose we had the equation below and we are going to differentiate it both sides:
begin{align}
&2x^2-x=1\
&4x-1=0\
&4=0
end{align}



This problem doesn't seems to happens with other equation like $ln x =1$ or $sin x = 0$, we can keep differentiating these two without getting "$4=0$", for example. This why I asked about polynomials.



PS: I'm not trying to solve any of these equations by differentiating then. But differentiation or integration helps and solving equations?



I remember that sometimes to solve trigonometry equtions like $sin x = cos x$ we had to square both side so we could use the identity $sin^2x + cos^2x =1$. Even thought squaring appears to make it worse because we have a new root.





This question already has an answer here:




  • Is differentiating on both sides of an equation allowed? [duplicate]

    9 answers



  • When is differentiating an equation valid?

    2 answers



  • It is possible to apply a derivative to both sides of a given equation and maintain the equivalence of both sides? [duplicate]

    5 answers








real-analysis calculus derivatives fake-proofs






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 27 at 10:21









Jam

5,02721432




5,02721432










asked Mar 24 at 19:37









PintecoPinteco

827313




827313




marked as duplicate by Eric Wofsey real-analysis
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Mar 24 at 23:45


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by Eric Wofsey real-analysis
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Mar 24 at 23:45


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 18




    $begingroup$
    The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    Mar 24 at 19:38








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Mar 24 at 19:43












  • $begingroup$
    You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:56












  • $begingroup$
    Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
    $endgroup$
    – Eric Towers
    Mar 24 at 22:52














  • 18




    $begingroup$
    The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
    $endgroup$
    – lulu
    Mar 24 at 19:38








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Mar 24 at 19:43












  • $begingroup$
    You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:56












  • $begingroup$
    Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
    $endgroup$
    – user647486
    Mar 24 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
    $endgroup$
    – Eric Towers
    Mar 24 at 22:52








18




18




$begingroup$
The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Mar 24 at 19:38






$begingroup$
The function $2x^2-2$ is not the same as the function $1$ so it makes no sense to differentiate both sides of that equation the way you have.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Mar 24 at 19:38






1




1




$begingroup$
$x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Mar 24 at 19:43






$begingroup$
$x=1$ and $x=0$ don't work, either. Differentiating both sides gives you $1=0.$ @Pinteco In general, an "equation" is one where we are trying to solve for individual values, but differentiation requires values in an area around the value for $x,$ so in general, if you are trying to solve $f(x)=g(x),$ you cannot differential both sides and get an equation. If, however, for every $x$ in an interval, you have $f(x)=g(x)$, then you can differentiate both sides and still get an equation, potentially more solutions, but containing the solutions in that interval.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Mar 24 at 19:43














$begingroup$
You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
$endgroup$
– user647486
Mar 24 at 19:56






$begingroup$
You can indeed take derivatives, like any other function, as much as you want, on both sides of an equality between objects for which the operation of taking derivatives is defined. The objects being equated in the first equality are not functions, but constant numbers. You could, if you want, tread them as constant functions of some other variable $y$ and then take derivative with respect to $y$. This would give you the true equation $0=0$.
$endgroup$
– user647486
Mar 24 at 19:56














$begingroup$
Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
$endgroup$
– user647486
Mar 24 at 19:59




$begingroup$
Instead you computed as if taking derivative with respect to $x$. Derivative with respect to $x$ is defined for some functions of $x$, . But that is not an equality between functions of $x$. Equality of functions, by definition, is an equation that is satisfied for all values of $x$.
$endgroup$
– user647486
Mar 24 at 19:59












$begingroup$
If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 24 at 22:52




$begingroup$
If we differentiate the functions on each side of $ln x = 1$, we get $frac{1}{x} = 0$, which is also an absurdity.
$endgroup$
– Eric Towers
Mar 24 at 22:52










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















19












$begingroup$

It's important to remember that we can only differentiate functions. When you write the expression
$$
2x^2-x=1
$$

you are no longer dealing with a function. Instead, this expression describes only the solutions $x$ to a given equation. For instance,
$$
f(x) = 2x-x^2
$$

is a function, but $2x-x^2 = 0$ is not.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    13












    $begingroup$

    When two functions intersect, they don't have to have the same slopes. For example, $y=x^2, y=x$.
    y=x^2,x[1]






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
      $endgroup$
      – MSalters
      Mar 24 at 23:05



















    5












    $begingroup$

    The kicker is that our domain of truth isn't "big enough" to allow it.



    From your example, the functions on both sides only agree on $left{-frac12,1right}$ However, we can't differentiate functions at isolated points of their domains!



    On the other hand, consider the equation $$sin x=cos xtan x.$$ The functions here agree everywhere the function on the right-hand side is defined--namely, all points except the odd integer multiples of $fracpi2.$ We can therefore differentiate at all such points, to obtain $$cos x=-sin xtan x+cos xsec^2 x,$$ which one can verify to be true for all such points.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
      $endgroup$
      – Pinteco
      Mar 24 at 19:54










    • $begingroup$
      For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
      $endgroup$
      – Cameron Buie
      Mar 24 at 20:01



















    1












    $begingroup$

    In general if two functions $f$ and $g$ agree at point $a$ they need not have the same derivative there i.e. $f(a)=g(a)$ does not imply $f'(a)=g'(a)$. This is readily seen by taking $f(x)=x$ and $g$ to be the constant function at $1$. Then for example $f(1)=g(1)$ but $1=f'(1)neq g'(1)=0$.



    We shouldn't be surprised since to compute the derivative of a function $f$ at a point $a$ we need to know how $f$ behaves in a neighbourhood $(a-h, a+h)$ for some $h>0$ of that point. Knowing the value of the point is not enough. There are many ways to draw a differentiable curve through a point.



    In the event that the two functions do agree on a neighbourhood, then the desired claim does follow.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$

      Differentiation isn't an algebraic operation like squaring or addition. Same thing with integration.



      You found a counterexample yourself: if you could solve $2x^2-2x=1$ with diff. then you would've gotten $x=-1/2,1$, not (the contradictory statement) $4=0$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$




















        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes








        5 Answers
        5






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        19












        $begingroup$

        It's important to remember that we can only differentiate functions. When you write the expression
        $$
        2x^2-x=1
        $$

        you are no longer dealing with a function. Instead, this expression describes only the solutions $x$ to a given equation. For instance,
        $$
        f(x) = 2x-x^2
        $$

        is a function, but $2x-x^2 = 0$ is not.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          19












          $begingroup$

          It's important to remember that we can only differentiate functions. When you write the expression
          $$
          2x^2-x=1
          $$

          you are no longer dealing with a function. Instead, this expression describes only the solutions $x$ to a given equation. For instance,
          $$
          f(x) = 2x-x^2
          $$

          is a function, but $2x-x^2 = 0$ is not.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















            19












            19








            19





            $begingroup$

            It's important to remember that we can only differentiate functions. When you write the expression
            $$
            2x^2-x=1
            $$

            you are no longer dealing with a function. Instead, this expression describes only the solutions $x$ to a given equation. For instance,
            $$
            f(x) = 2x-x^2
            $$

            is a function, but $2x-x^2 = 0$ is not.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            It's important to remember that we can only differentiate functions. When you write the expression
            $$
            2x^2-x=1
            $$

            you are no longer dealing with a function. Instead, this expression describes only the solutions $x$ to a given equation. For instance,
            $$
            f(x) = 2x-x^2
            $$

            is a function, but $2x-x^2 = 0$ is not.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Mar 24 at 19:42









            rolandcyprolandcyp

            2,149422




            2,149422























                13












                $begingroup$

                When two functions intersect, they don't have to have the same slopes. For example, $y=x^2, y=x$.
                y=x^2,x[1]






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                  $endgroup$
                  – MSalters
                  Mar 24 at 23:05
















                13












                $begingroup$

                When two functions intersect, they don't have to have the same slopes. For example, $y=x^2, y=x$.
                y=x^2,x[1]






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                  $endgroup$
                  – MSalters
                  Mar 24 at 23:05














                13












                13








                13





                $begingroup$

                When two functions intersect, they don't have to have the same slopes. For example, $y=x^2, y=x$.
                y=x^2,x[1]






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                When two functions intersect, they don't have to have the same slopes. For example, $y=x^2, y=x$.
                y=x^2,x[1]







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Mar 24 at 20:06









                Yizhar AmirYizhar Amir

                17217




                17217












                • $begingroup$
                  This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                  $endgroup$
                  – MSalters
                  Mar 24 at 23:05


















                • $begingroup$
                  This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                  $endgroup$
                  – MSalters
                  Mar 24 at 23:05
















                $begingroup$
                This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                $endgroup$
                – MSalters
                Mar 24 at 23:05




                $begingroup$
                This is essentially the correct answer, but it might be worth pointing out that $$2x^2-x=1$$ describes the point(s) where the function on the left-hand side crosses the function on the right-hand side.
                $endgroup$
                – MSalters
                Mar 24 at 23:05











                5












                $begingroup$

                The kicker is that our domain of truth isn't "big enough" to allow it.



                From your example, the functions on both sides only agree on $left{-frac12,1right}$ However, we can't differentiate functions at isolated points of their domains!



                On the other hand, consider the equation $$sin x=cos xtan x.$$ The functions here agree everywhere the function on the right-hand side is defined--namely, all points except the odd integer multiples of $fracpi2.$ We can therefore differentiate at all such points, to obtain $$cos x=-sin xtan x+cos xsec^2 x,$$ which one can verify to be true for all such points.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Pinteco
                  Mar 24 at 19:54










                • $begingroup$
                  For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Cameron Buie
                  Mar 24 at 20:01
















                5












                $begingroup$

                The kicker is that our domain of truth isn't "big enough" to allow it.



                From your example, the functions on both sides only agree on $left{-frac12,1right}$ However, we can't differentiate functions at isolated points of their domains!



                On the other hand, consider the equation $$sin x=cos xtan x.$$ The functions here agree everywhere the function on the right-hand side is defined--namely, all points except the odd integer multiples of $fracpi2.$ We can therefore differentiate at all such points, to obtain $$cos x=-sin xtan x+cos xsec^2 x,$$ which one can verify to be true for all such points.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$













                • $begingroup$
                  The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Pinteco
                  Mar 24 at 19:54










                • $begingroup$
                  For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Cameron Buie
                  Mar 24 at 20:01














                5












                5








                5





                $begingroup$

                The kicker is that our domain of truth isn't "big enough" to allow it.



                From your example, the functions on both sides only agree on $left{-frac12,1right}$ However, we can't differentiate functions at isolated points of their domains!



                On the other hand, consider the equation $$sin x=cos xtan x.$$ The functions here agree everywhere the function on the right-hand side is defined--namely, all points except the odd integer multiples of $fracpi2.$ We can therefore differentiate at all such points, to obtain $$cos x=-sin xtan x+cos xsec^2 x,$$ which one can verify to be true for all such points.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                The kicker is that our domain of truth isn't "big enough" to allow it.



                From your example, the functions on both sides only agree on $left{-frac12,1right}$ However, we can't differentiate functions at isolated points of their domains!



                On the other hand, consider the equation $$sin x=cos xtan x.$$ The functions here agree everywhere the function on the right-hand side is defined--namely, all points except the odd integer multiples of $fracpi2.$ We can therefore differentiate at all such points, to obtain $$cos x=-sin xtan x+cos xsec^2 x,$$ which one can verify to be true for all such points.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Mar 24 at 19:44









                Cameron BuieCameron Buie

                87k773161




                87k773161












                • $begingroup$
                  The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Pinteco
                  Mar 24 at 19:54










                • $begingroup$
                  For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Cameron Buie
                  Mar 24 at 20:01


















                • $begingroup$
                  The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                  $endgroup$
                  – Pinteco
                  Mar 24 at 19:54










                • $begingroup$
                  For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                  $endgroup$
                  – Cameron Buie
                  Mar 24 at 20:01
















                $begingroup$
                The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                $endgroup$
                – Pinteco
                Mar 24 at 19:54




                $begingroup$
                The same thing can be said about indefinite/definite integration?
                $endgroup$
                – Pinteco
                Mar 24 at 19:54












                $begingroup$
                For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                $endgroup$
                – Cameron Buie
                Mar 24 at 20:01




                $begingroup$
                For indefinite integration, how would you define an antiderivative of a function whose domain is a finite set? For definite integration, it turns out to be doable, but we'd end up with $0$ on both sides, rather than what we might expect.
                $endgroup$
                – Cameron Buie
                Mar 24 at 20:01











                1












                $begingroup$

                In general if two functions $f$ and $g$ agree at point $a$ they need not have the same derivative there i.e. $f(a)=g(a)$ does not imply $f'(a)=g'(a)$. This is readily seen by taking $f(x)=x$ and $g$ to be the constant function at $1$. Then for example $f(1)=g(1)$ but $1=f'(1)neq g'(1)=0$.



                We shouldn't be surprised since to compute the derivative of a function $f$ at a point $a$ we need to know how $f$ behaves in a neighbourhood $(a-h, a+h)$ for some $h>0$ of that point. Knowing the value of the point is not enough. There are many ways to draw a differentiable curve through a point.



                In the event that the two functions do agree on a neighbourhood, then the desired claim does follow.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$


















                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  In general if two functions $f$ and $g$ agree at point $a$ they need not have the same derivative there i.e. $f(a)=g(a)$ does not imply $f'(a)=g'(a)$. This is readily seen by taking $f(x)=x$ and $g$ to be the constant function at $1$. Then for example $f(1)=g(1)$ but $1=f'(1)neq g'(1)=0$.



                  We shouldn't be surprised since to compute the derivative of a function $f$ at a point $a$ we need to know how $f$ behaves in a neighbourhood $(a-h, a+h)$ for some $h>0$ of that point. Knowing the value of the point is not enough. There are many ways to draw a differentiable curve through a point.



                  In the event that the two functions do agree on a neighbourhood, then the desired claim does follow.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$
















                    1












                    1








                    1





                    $begingroup$

                    In general if two functions $f$ and $g$ agree at point $a$ they need not have the same derivative there i.e. $f(a)=g(a)$ does not imply $f'(a)=g'(a)$. This is readily seen by taking $f(x)=x$ and $g$ to be the constant function at $1$. Then for example $f(1)=g(1)$ but $1=f'(1)neq g'(1)=0$.



                    We shouldn't be surprised since to compute the derivative of a function $f$ at a point $a$ we need to know how $f$ behaves in a neighbourhood $(a-h, a+h)$ for some $h>0$ of that point. Knowing the value of the point is not enough. There are many ways to draw a differentiable curve through a point.



                    In the event that the two functions do agree on a neighbourhood, then the desired claim does follow.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    In general if two functions $f$ and $g$ agree at point $a$ they need not have the same derivative there i.e. $f(a)=g(a)$ does not imply $f'(a)=g'(a)$. This is readily seen by taking $f(x)=x$ and $g$ to be the constant function at $1$. Then for example $f(1)=g(1)$ but $1=f'(1)neq g'(1)=0$.



                    We shouldn't be surprised since to compute the derivative of a function $f$ at a point $a$ we need to know how $f$ behaves in a neighbourhood $(a-h, a+h)$ for some $h>0$ of that point. Knowing the value of the point is not enough. There are many ways to draw a differentiable curve through a point.



                    In the event that the two functions do agree on a neighbourhood, then the desired claim does follow.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Mar 24 at 22:55

























                    answered Mar 24 at 22:49









                    Foobaz JohnFoobaz John

                    23k41552




                    23k41552























                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        Differentiation isn't an algebraic operation like squaring or addition. Same thing with integration.



                        You found a counterexample yourself: if you could solve $2x^2-2x=1$ with diff. then you would've gotten $x=-1/2,1$, not (the contradictory statement) $4=0$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          Differentiation isn't an algebraic operation like squaring or addition. Same thing with integration.



                          You found a counterexample yourself: if you could solve $2x^2-2x=1$ with diff. then you would've gotten $x=-1/2,1$, not (the contradictory statement) $4=0$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            Differentiation isn't an algebraic operation like squaring or addition. Same thing with integration.



                            You found a counterexample yourself: if you could solve $2x^2-2x=1$ with diff. then you would've gotten $x=-1/2,1$, not (the contradictory statement) $4=0$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            Differentiation isn't an algebraic operation like squaring or addition. Same thing with integration.



                            You found a counterexample yourself: if you could solve $2x^2-2x=1$ with diff. then you would've gotten $x=-1/2,1$, not (the contradictory statement) $4=0$.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Mar 24 at 19:44









                            clathratusclathratus

                            5,1441439




                            5,1441439















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