Why don’t women say שלא עשני גויה and שפחה, according to Ashkenazim?Pesach/Passover ...
Why are both D and D# fitting into my E minor key?
Can you use the Shield Master feat to shove someone before you make an attack by using a Readied action?
Is the Standard Deduction better than Itemized when both are the same amount?
Do I really need to have a message in a novel to appeal to readers?
How to answer "Have you ever been terminated?"
Do I really need recursive chmod to restrict access to a folder?
Why didn't Eitri join the fight?
What is homebrew?
Trademark violation for app?
How to compare two different files line by line in unix?
What is implied by the word 'Desika'
Where are Serre’s lectures at Collège de France to be found?
When the Haste spell ends on a creature, do attackers have advantage against that creature?
Delete nth line from bottom
Is there such thing as an Availability Group failover trigger?
Do square wave exist?
How can I use the Python library networkx from Mathematica?
If a VARCHAR(MAX) column is included in an index, is the entire value always stored in the index page(s)?
What does this Jacques Hadamard quote mean?
How to Make a Beautiful Stacked 3D Plot
Chinese Seal on silk painting - what does it mean?
Most bit efficient text communication method?
Dating a Former Employee
Why do we bend a book to keep it straight?
Why don’t women say שלא עשני גויה and שפחה, according to Ashkenazim?
Pesach/Passover
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Best answer contest: Second quarter of 5779
To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…The Split Between Sefardim and AshkenazimWhy do the Ashkenazim say Selichos for a minimum of 4 days before Rosh HaShana?Women and Mayim AcharonimWhy do men say Shelo Asani Isha, and women say Sheasani Kirtzono?Should Ashkenazim say 'מוריד הטל' in Israel?Why do we say the 13 Middos so often?What is the intention when we recite the blessing “who didn't make me…”?Morning blessing before Shema - why “Borei et Hakol” and not “Borei Ra”?Why do Ashkenazim in Israel tend to use Nusach Sefard?Why do we say מודה אני and not אני מודה?
I see in Nusach Edos HaMizrach, women say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה, “Who did not make me a non-Jewess” and “Who did not make me a maidservant,” paralleling the men’s שלא עשני גוי and שלא עשני עבד, “Who did not make me a non-Jew” and “Who did not make me a slave.”
Why don’t Ashkenazi women say these forms of the Berachos? Doesn’t it make more sense for women to refer to female non-Jews and slaves, rather than use the masculine form?
tefilla minhag
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
add a comment |
I see in Nusach Edos HaMizrach, women say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה, “Who did not make me a non-Jewess” and “Who did not make me a maidservant,” paralleling the men’s שלא עשני גוי and שלא עשני עבד, “Who did not make me a non-Jew” and “Who did not make me a slave.”
Why don’t Ashkenazi women say these forms of the Berachos? Doesn’t it make more sense for women to refer to female non-Jews and slaves, rather than use the masculine form?
tefilla minhag
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
1
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
3
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20
add a comment |
I see in Nusach Edos HaMizrach, women say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה, “Who did not make me a non-Jewess” and “Who did not make me a maidservant,” paralleling the men’s שלא עשני גוי and שלא עשני עבד, “Who did not make me a non-Jew” and “Who did not make me a slave.”
Why don’t Ashkenazi women say these forms of the Berachos? Doesn’t it make more sense for women to refer to female non-Jews and slaves, rather than use the masculine form?
tefilla minhag
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
I see in Nusach Edos HaMizrach, women say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה, “Who did not make me a non-Jewess” and “Who did not make me a maidservant,” paralleling the men’s שלא עשני גוי and שלא עשני עבד, “Who did not make me a non-Jew” and “Who did not make me a slave.”
Why don’t Ashkenazi women say these forms of the Berachos? Doesn’t it make more sense for women to refer to female non-Jews and slaves, rather than use the masculine form?
tefilla minhag
tefilla minhag
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
edited Mar 24 at 18:04
DonielF
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
asked Mar 24 at 17:35
DonielFDonielF
17.4k12691
17.4k12691
1
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
3
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20
add a comment |
1
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
3
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20
1
1
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
3
3
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
There are a number of Ashkenazi Siddurim which include these forms of the blessings for women:
Siddur Derech Si'ach Sadeh, printed in Berlin in 1713, has both שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה for women (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
Siddur Avodas Yisrael, printed in Rödelheim in 1901, has שלא עשני נכריה and שלא עשני שפחה (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
R. Yaakov Emeden in his Siddur Beis Yaakov writes that women should say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה (as well as שעשני כרצונו), however, since these versions of the blessings are not found in the Talmud, they should be said without Shem u'Malchus (Hashem’s names and the words melech ha’olam).
So the difference is not between Ashkenaz and Edos HaMizrach, it is merely a difference of opinion between various poskim from all communites whether it is preferable to use the original version, or change it to an explicitly feminine form.
(Based on information I found here)
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
There are a number of Ashkenazi Siddurim which include these forms of the blessings for women:
Siddur Derech Si'ach Sadeh, printed in Berlin in 1713, has both שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה for women (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
Siddur Avodas Yisrael, printed in Rödelheim in 1901, has שלא עשני נכריה and שלא עשני שפחה (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
R. Yaakov Emeden in his Siddur Beis Yaakov writes that women should say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה (as well as שעשני כרצונו), however, since these versions of the blessings are not found in the Talmud, they should be said without Shem u'Malchus (Hashem’s names and the words melech ha’olam).
So the difference is not between Ashkenaz and Edos HaMizrach, it is merely a difference of opinion between various poskim from all communites whether it is preferable to use the original version, or change it to an explicitly feminine form.
(Based on information I found here)
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
add a comment |
There are a number of Ashkenazi Siddurim which include these forms of the blessings for women:
Siddur Derech Si'ach Sadeh, printed in Berlin in 1713, has both שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה for women (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
Siddur Avodas Yisrael, printed in Rödelheim in 1901, has שלא עשני נכריה and שלא עשני שפחה (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
R. Yaakov Emeden in his Siddur Beis Yaakov writes that women should say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה (as well as שעשני כרצונו), however, since these versions of the blessings are not found in the Talmud, they should be said without Shem u'Malchus (Hashem’s names and the words melech ha’olam).
So the difference is not between Ashkenaz and Edos HaMizrach, it is merely a difference of opinion between various poskim from all communites whether it is preferable to use the original version, or change it to an explicitly feminine form.
(Based on information I found here)
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
add a comment |
There are a number of Ashkenazi Siddurim which include these forms of the blessings for women:
Siddur Derech Si'ach Sadeh, printed in Berlin in 1713, has both שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה for women (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
Siddur Avodas Yisrael, printed in Rödelheim in 1901, has שלא עשני נכריה and שלא עשני שפחה (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
R. Yaakov Emeden in his Siddur Beis Yaakov writes that women should say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה (as well as שעשני כרצונו), however, since these versions of the blessings are not found in the Talmud, they should be said without Shem u'Malchus (Hashem’s names and the words melech ha’olam).
So the difference is not between Ashkenaz and Edos HaMizrach, it is merely a difference of opinion between various poskim from all communites whether it is preferable to use the original version, or change it to an explicitly feminine form.
(Based on information I found here)
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
There are a number of Ashkenazi Siddurim which include these forms of the blessings for women:
Siddur Derech Si'ach Sadeh, printed in Berlin in 1713, has both שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה for women (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
Siddur Avodas Yisrael, printed in Rödelheim in 1901, has שלא עשני נכריה and שלא עשני שפחה (in addition to שעשני כרצונו).
R. Yaakov Emeden in his Siddur Beis Yaakov writes that women should say שלא עשני גויה and שלא עשני שפחה (as well as שעשני כרצונו), however, since these versions of the blessings are not found in the Talmud, they should be said without Shem u'Malchus (Hashem’s names and the words melech ha’olam).
So the difference is not between Ashkenaz and Edos HaMizrach, it is merely a difference of opinion between various poskim from all communites whether it is preferable to use the original version, or change it to an explicitly feminine form.
(Based on information I found here)
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
answered Mar 24 at 20:16
PloniPloni
4,6871460
4,6871460
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
add a comment |
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
1
1
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
This just pushes the question. Why do some change and some not? Particularly since it seems universally agreed to include שעשני כרצונו, which wasn’t in the Gemara, though many say that without שם ומלכות.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 20:19
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF 1. Your original question was about Ashkenaz, so I answered that. But as far as why some do and some not I addressed in the last paragraph - it's like any other machlokes haPoskim. 2. Regarding שעשני כרצונו, it's not universal, as further evidenced by the fact that there's a machlokes whether or not to say it with Shem u'Malchus.
– Ploni
Mar 24 at 20:23
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
@DonielF the Arukh hashulchan says he thinks the minhag near him is not to say שעשני כרצונו
– Double AA♦
Mar 25 at 0:17
add a comment |
1
Some Ashkenaz do and some Sefardim don't. Don't extrapolate from some Siddur you saw when there are lots of different Siddurim out there.
– Double AA♦
Mar 24 at 18:01
@DoubleAA Granted it was just one Edus HaMizrach Siddur, but I’ve never seen an Ashkenazi Siddur with this Nusach.
– DonielF
Mar 24 at 18:02
3
Is there a reason to think that if a Jewish woman hadn't been a Jewish woman it would be more likely for her to have been a non-Jewish woman than to be a non-Jewish man?
– Alex
Mar 24 at 20:12
Like everything else, it's not so black and white. Some Ashkenazim will change the text of the Siddur to make it more grammatically correct for women's usage (e.g. "Modah Ani" vs. "Modeh Ani") and some Sefardim will not change the text of the Siddur. In fact, in some Sefardi communities (and I'd actually venture to say this is the norm), women do not pray from the Siddur at all, so there is no need to change the text of the berachot.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:19
By the way, just because a Siddur does not indicate a variant Nusach does not mean that Nusach does not exist. Plenty of Sefardi Siddurim do not print the women's variations of the berachot. Some of these changes are implied and are changed by the user, depending on their community's Minhag.
– ezra
Mar 25 at 5:20