Non-abelian Groups of Order $p^3$ Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar...

What causes the vertical darker bands in my photo?

How to draw this diagram using TikZ package?

ListPlot join points by nearest neighbor rather than order

When is phishing education going too far?

"Seemed to had" is it correct?

3 doors, three guards, one stone

How discoverable are IPv6 addresses and AAAA names by potential attackers?

Should gear shift center itself while in neutral?

Is it true that "carbohydrates are of no use for the basal metabolic need"?

Why don't the Weasley twins use magic outside of school if the Trace can only find the location of spells cast?

Withdrew £2800, but only £2000 shows as withdrawn on online banking; what are my obligations?

Is there a Spanish version of "dot your i's and cross your t's" that includes the letter 'ñ'?

Is 1 ppb equal to 1 μg/kg?

How to deal with a team lead who never gives me credit?

What are the pros and cons of Aerospike nosecones?

Did Xerox really develop the first LAN?

How can I fade player when goes inside or outside of the area?

Is there a concise way to say "all of the X, one of each"?

How to find all the available tools in macOS terminal?

Disable hyphenation for an entire paragraph

How to bypass password on Windows XP account?

How widely used is the term Treppenwitz? Is it something that most Germans know?

What are 'alternative tunings' of a guitar and why would you use them? Doesn't it make it more difficult to play?

What makes black pepper strong or mild?



Non-abelian Groups of Order $p^3$



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Hint Predicated on a False Claim?When are groups of order 12 non-abelian?The Basis Theorem for Finte Abelian GroupsNumber of non-isomorphic non-abelian groups of order 10Order of elements in certain generating sets of non-abelian groupsGroups of order $64$ with abelian group of automorphismNon-abelian groups of order $50$Classification of non abelian groups of order $p^3$.Classification of finite abelian groupsCauchy's Theorem for Abelian GroupsWhy are surface groups non-abelian?












2












$begingroup$


I am trying to show that a non-abelian group $G$ of order $p^3$ is isomorphic to one of two groups constructed on page 48 of these group theory notes (see examples 3.14 and 3.15 on that page).



Here is some of my work so far:




Since $G$ is a $p$-group, it must have non-trivial center; but, as $G$ is non-abelian, the order of $Z := Z(G)$ must be $p$. This means that $G/Z cong Bbb{Z}_p times Bbb{Z}_p$, so $G/Z$ is generated by two elements. Let $x,y$ be the elements whose images (under the canonical projection map) in $G/Z$ generate $G/Z$. Since $G/Z$ is abelian (all $p^2$ groups are abelian), $[x,y] in Z$. If $[x,y]$ were the identity, then $G$ would actually be abelian, so $[x,y] neq 1$, in which case the only possible order of it is $p$. Hence, $Z = langle [x,y] rangle$.




At this point, my idea was to break up the problem into two cases: both $x$ and $y$ have order $p$, or at least one has order For the first case, I thought I was basically finished. I showed that $x$, $y$ and $[x,y]$ satisfied the three defining relations in example 3.15:



$$a^p = b^p = c^p = 1 text{ , } ab = cac^{-1} text{ , } [b,a] = 1 = [b,c],$$



where, in my situation, $a = x$, $b = [x,y]$, and $c =y$. But then it quickly occured to me that $[x,y] in langle x,y rangle$, so the commutator cannot be the third generator.



As for the case, I wasn't able to come up with anything. I have been working on this problem for a rather long time; I could use some guidance. Initially I was vainly following the hint in the back of the book; but then someone in the chatroom kindly pointed out that the author made a false claim in the hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 21:59












  • $begingroup$
    Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 22:02










  • $begingroup$
    $[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:39












  • $begingroup$
    @Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 5:49












  • $begingroup$
    yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:51


















2












$begingroup$


I am trying to show that a non-abelian group $G$ of order $p^3$ is isomorphic to one of two groups constructed on page 48 of these group theory notes (see examples 3.14 and 3.15 on that page).



Here is some of my work so far:




Since $G$ is a $p$-group, it must have non-trivial center; but, as $G$ is non-abelian, the order of $Z := Z(G)$ must be $p$. This means that $G/Z cong Bbb{Z}_p times Bbb{Z}_p$, so $G/Z$ is generated by two elements. Let $x,y$ be the elements whose images (under the canonical projection map) in $G/Z$ generate $G/Z$. Since $G/Z$ is abelian (all $p^2$ groups are abelian), $[x,y] in Z$. If $[x,y]$ were the identity, then $G$ would actually be abelian, so $[x,y] neq 1$, in which case the only possible order of it is $p$. Hence, $Z = langle [x,y] rangle$.




At this point, my idea was to break up the problem into two cases: both $x$ and $y$ have order $p$, or at least one has order For the first case, I thought I was basically finished. I showed that $x$, $y$ and $[x,y]$ satisfied the three defining relations in example 3.15:



$$a^p = b^p = c^p = 1 text{ , } ab = cac^{-1} text{ , } [b,a] = 1 = [b,c],$$



where, in my situation, $a = x$, $b = [x,y]$, and $c =y$. But then it quickly occured to me that $[x,y] in langle x,y rangle$, so the commutator cannot be the third generator.



As for the case, I wasn't able to come up with anything. I have been working on this problem for a rather long time; I could use some guidance. Initially I was vainly following the hint in the back of the book; but then someone in the chatroom kindly pointed out that the author made a false claim in the hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 21:59












  • $begingroup$
    Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 22:02










  • $begingroup$
    $[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:39












  • $begingroup$
    @Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 5:49












  • $begingroup$
    yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:51
















2












2








2





$begingroup$


I am trying to show that a non-abelian group $G$ of order $p^3$ is isomorphic to one of two groups constructed on page 48 of these group theory notes (see examples 3.14 and 3.15 on that page).



Here is some of my work so far:




Since $G$ is a $p$-group, it must have non-trivial center; but, as $G$ is non-abelian, the order of $Z := Z(G)$ must be $p$. This means that $G/Z cong Bbb{Z}_p times Bbb{Z}_p$, so $G/Z$ is generated by two elements. Let $x,y$ be the elements whose images (under the canonical projection map) in $G/Z$ generate $G/Z$. Since $G/Z$ is abelian (all $p^2$ groups are abelian), $[x,y] in Z$. If $[x,y]$ were the identity, then $G$ would actually be abelian, so $[x,y] neq 1$, in which case the only possible order of it is $p$. Hence, $Z = langle [x,y] rangle$.




At this point, my idea was to break up the problem into two cases: both $x$ and $y$ have order $p$, or at least one has order For the first case, I thought I was basically finished. I showed that $x$, $y$ and $[x,y]$ satisfied the three defining relations in example 3.15:



$$a^p = b^p = c^p = 1 text{ , } ab = cac^{-1} text{ , } [b,a] = 1 = [b,c],$$



where, in my situation, $a = x$, $b = [x,y]$, and $c =y$. But then it quickly occured to me that $[x,y] in langle x,y rangle$, so the commutator cannot be the third generator.



As for the case, I wasn't able to come up with anything. I have been working on this problem for a rather long time; I could use some guidance. Initially I was vainly following the hint in the back of the book; but then someone in the chatroom kindly pointed out that the author made a false claim in the hint.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am trying to show that a non-abelian group $G$ of order $p^3$ is isomorphic to one of two groups constructed on page 48 of these group theory notes (see examples 3.14 and 3.15 on that page).



Here is some of my work so far:




Since $G$ is a $p$-group, it must have non-trivial center; but, as $G$ is non-abelian, the order of $Z := Z(G)$ must be $p$. This means that $G/Z cong Bbb{Z}_p times Bbb{Z}_p$, so $G/Z$ is generated by two elements. Let $x,y$ be the elements whose images (under the canonical projection map) in $G/Z$ generate $G/Z$. Since $G/Z$ is abelian (all $p^2$ groups are abelian), $[x,y] in Z$. If $[x,y]$ were the identity, then $G$ would actually be abelian, so $[x,y] neq 1$, in which case the only possible order of it is $p$. Hence, $Z = langle [x,y] rangle$.




At this point, my idea was to break up the problem into two cases: both $x$ and $y$ have order $p$, or at least one has order For the first case, I thought I was basically finished. I showed that $x$, $y$ and $[x,y]$ satisfied the three defining relations in example 3.15:



$$a^p = b^p = c^p = 1 text{ , } ab = cac^{-1} text{ , } [b,a] = 1 = [b,c],$$



where, in my situation, $a = x$, $b = [x,y]$, and $c =y$. But then it quickly occured to me that $[x,y] in langle x,y rangle$, so the commutator cannot be the third generator.



As for the case, I wasn't able to come up with anything. I have been working on this problem for a rather long time; I could use some guidance. Initially I was vainly following the hint in the back of the book; but then someone in the chatroom kindly pointed out that the author made a false claim in the hint.







group-theory abelian-groups p-groups






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 24 at 1:53









Saad

20.6k92452




20.6k92452










asked Mar 23 at 21:50









user193319user193319

2,4622928




2,4622928












  • $begingroup$
    There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 21:59












  • $begingroup$
    Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 22:02










  • $begingroup$
    $[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:39












  • $begingroup$
    @Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 5:49












  • $begingroup$
    yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:51




















  • $begingroup$
    There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 21:59












  • $begingroup$
    Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 23 at 22:02










  • $begingroup$
    $[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:39












  • $begingroup$
    @Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 5:49












  • $begingroup$
    yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
    $endgroup$
    – Beginner
    Mar 24 at 5:51


















$begingroup$
There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 23 at 21:59






$begingroup$
There is no issue; generating sets/relations need not be as small as possible. Note that even in the original description, you do not actually need $b$, since $b$ can be replaced with $b=a^{-1}cac^{-1}$ (from the equality $ab=cac^{-1}$), and so you can describe the group using just two generators. That is, $binlangle a,crangle$ in the original description, so there is no problem with you having your third “generator” be in the subgroup generated by the first two.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 23 at 21:59














$begingroup$
Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 23 at 22:02




$begingroup$
Your final paragraph seem to be incomplete. “As for the case”.... what case? Where one of $x$ and $y$ has order $p^2$? Say $x$ has order $p^2$ and $y$ has order $p$. Since $x$ and $y$ project to different things, you must have $langle xranglecap langle yrangle = {e}$, and so $langle xranglelangle yrangle = G$ (by a simple counting argument). So every element is of the form $x^ay^b$, $0leq alt p^2$, $0leq blt p$. Show that $[x,y]inlangle x^prangle$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 23 at 22:02












$begingroup$
$[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
$endgroup$
– Beginner
Mar 24 at 5:39






$begingroup$
$[x,y]$ lies in $langle x,yrangle$; but, it can be taken as third generator! unlike in abelian groups, the third generator is not necessarily outside the subgroup $langle x,yrangle$. [In fact, $langle x,yrangle$ is whole group $G$ in your case, whether $o(x)=p^2,o(y)=p$ or both have order $p$, or both have order $p^2$! Thus, the third generator has to be in $G=langle x,yrangle$; where is problem? $G$ is non-abelian!
$endgroup$
– Beginner
Mar 24 at 5:39














$begingroup$
@Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 24 at 5:49






$begingroup$
@Beginner "unlike in abelian groups"? Generating sets never have to be minimal. For example, the following is a perfectly fine presentation of an abelian group (the Klein 4-group, which can be generated by two elements as well): $langle x,y,zmid x^2=y^2=z^2=1, xy=z, xy=yx, xz=zx, yz=zyrangle$.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 24 at 5:49














$begingroup$
yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
$endgroup$
– Beginner
Mar 24 at 5:51






$begingroup$
yes; that is fine. My rough comment was, in finite abelian groups, the usual generating sets are minimal ones (of course all elements of $G$ form generating set.) The user193319 asked this problem of picking third generator outside $langle x,yrangle$; I thought, he might be considering situations of abelian groups. In (one of) the proof of structure of finite abelian groups, generators are chosen in such fashion.
$endgroup$
– Beginner
Mar 24 at 5:51












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

(1) $G/Z(G)$ is generated by $xZ(G)$ and $yZ(G)$; $Z(G)$ is generated by $[x,y]$ (also note $Z(G)=G'$).



(2) Suppose that not both $x,y$ have order $p$. This implies two cases: $o(x)=p^2$, $o(y)=p$ or $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. [The case $o(x)=p, o(y)=p^2$ has considered, can you see?]



(2.1) Suppose $o(x)=p^2$ and $o(y)=p$. Then $langle yrangle$ is subgroup of order $p$, and $langle yranglecap Z(G)=1$.



Since $xZ(G)$ is of order $p$, so $x^pin Z(G)$, and $x^pneq 1$ (since $o(x)=p^2)$, so without loss, we can take $x^p=[x,y]$. So $langle xrangle$ is group of order $p^2$, it has unique subgroup of order $p$ namely $langle x^prangle$ which is $langle [x,y]rangle$, which is $Z(G)$, and $langle yrangle$ intersects with this trivialy; i.e. $langle xranglecaplangle yrangle=1$. So $G=langle xrangle.langle yrangle=langle x,yrangle$, where $x,y$ satisfy relations (which perhaps you want)
$$x^{p^2}=1, y^p=1, x^p=[x,y]=x^{-1}y^{-1}xy mbox{ i.e. } x^{1+p}=y^{-1}xy.$$



(2.2) Suppose $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. Then point is we can modify one of these two generators to get a new generator of order $p$. How to do this? This requires commutator calculus: since $[x,y]in Z(G)$, so $[x,y]$ commutes with both $x$ and $y$. You can prove that $(xy)^n=x^ny^n[y,x]^{binom{n}{2}}$. (Prove this, use induction on $n$.)
Now we use this. Since $o(X)=o(y)=p^2$, and $x^p,y^pin Z(G)=langle [x,y]rangle$, without loss, we can assume that
$$x^p=y^p=[x,y].$$
Then $$(yx^{-1})^p=y^px^{-p}[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}.$$
Since $[x^{-1},y]$ is a member of $G'=Z(G)$, it is of order $p$ and for odd $p$, the integer $binom{p}{2}=p(p-1)/2$ is multiple of $p$, so $[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}=1$. Also $y^px^{-p}=1$ (why?) Thus we get
$$(yx^{-1})^p=1.$$
So, instead of $y$ you take new generator $y_1=yx^{-1}$; this is of order $p$, and we move in case (2.1), which is done!






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 13:17










  • $begingroup$
    Also, why does $Z = G'$?
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 17:58






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl Kronenfeld
    Mar 24 at 23:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 23:49












Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3159845%2fnon-abelian-groups-of-order-p3%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

(1) $G/Z(G)$ is generated by $xZ(G)$ and $yZ(G)$; $Z(G)$ is generated by $[x,y]$ (also note $Z(G)=G'$).



(2) Suppose that not both $x,y$ have order $p$. This implies two cases: $o(x)=p^2$, $o(y)=p$ or $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. [The case $o(x)=p, o(y)=p^2$ has considered, can you see?]



(2.1) Suppose $o(x)=p^2$ and $o(y)=p$. Then $langle yrangle$ is subgroup of order $p$, and $langle yranglecap Z(G)=1$.



Since $xZ(G)$ is of order $p$, so $x^pin Z(G)$, and $x^pneq 1$ (since $o(x)=p^2)$, so without loss, we can take $x^p=[x,y]$. So $langle xrangle$ is group of order $p^2$, it has unique subgroup of order $p$ namely $langle x^prangle$ which is $langle [x,y]rangle$, which is $Z(G)$, and $langle yrangle$ intersects with this trivialy; i.e. $langle xranglecaplangle yrangle=1$. So $G=langle xrangle.langle yrangle=langle x,yrangle$, where $x,y$ satisfy relations (which perhaps you want)
$$x^{p^2}=1, y^p=1, x^p=[x,y]=x^{-1}y^{-1}xy mbox{ i.e. } x^{1+p}=y^{-1}xy.$$



(2.2) Suppose $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. Then point is we can modify one of these two generators to get a new generator of order $p$. How to do this? This requires commutator calculus: since $[x,y]in Z(G)$, so $[x,y]$ commutes with both $x$ and $y$. You can prove that $(xy)^n=x^ny^n[y,x]^{binom{n}{2}}$. (Prove this, use induction on $n$.)
Now we use this. Since $o(X)=o(y)=p^2$, and $x^p,y^pin Z(G)=langle [x,y]rangle$, without loss, we can assume that
$$x^p=y^p=[x,y].$$
Then $$(yx^{-1})^p=y^px^{-p}[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}.$$
Since $[x^{-1},y]$ is a member of $G'=Z(G)$, it is of order $p$ and for odd $p$, the integer $binom{p}{2}=p(p-1)/2$ is multiple of $p$, so $[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}=1$. Also $y^px^{-p}=1$ (why?) Thus we get
$$(yx^{-1})^p=1.$$
So, instead of $y$ you take new generator $y_1=yx^{-1}$; this is of order $p$, and we move in case (2.1), which is done!






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 13:17










  • $begingroup$
    Also, why does $Z = G'$?
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 17:58






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl Kronenfeld
    Mar 24 at 23:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 23:49
















1












$begingroup$

(1) $G/Z(G)$ is generated by $xZ(G)$ and $yZ(G)$; $Z(G)$ is generated by $[x,y]$ (also note $Z(G)=G'$).



(2) Suppose that not both $x,y$ have order $p$. This implies two cases: $o(x)=p^2$, $o(y)=p$ or $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. [The case $o(x)=p, o(y)=p^2$ has considered, can you see?]



(2.1) Suppose $o(x)=p^2$ and $o(y)=p$. Then $langle yrangle$ is subgroup of order $p$, and $langle yranglecap Z(G)=1$.



Since $xZ(G)$ is of order $p$, so $x^pin Z(G)$, and $x^pneq 1$ (since $o(x)=p^2)$, so without loss, we can take $x^p=[x,y]$. So $langle xrangle$ is group of order $p^2$, it has unique subgroup of order $p$ namely $langle x^prangle$ which is $langle [x,y]rangle$, which is $Z(G)$, and $langle yrangle$ intersects with this trivialy; i.e. $langle xranglecaplangle yrangle=1$. So $G=langle xrangle.langle yrangle=langle x,yrangle$, where $x,y$ satisfy relations (which perhaps you want)
$$x^{p^2}=1, y^p=1, x^p=[x,y]=x^{-1}y^{-1}xy mbox{ i.e. } x^{1+p}=y^{-1}xy.$$



(2.2) Suppose $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. Then point is we can modify one of these two generators to get a new generator of order $p$. How to do this? This requires commutator calculus: since $[x,y]in Z(G)$, so $[x,y]$ commutes with both $x$ and $y$. You can prove that $(xy)^n=x^ny^n[y,x]^{binom{n}{2}}$. (Prove this, use induction on $n$.)
Now we use this. Since $o(X)=o(y)=p^2$, and $x^p,y^pin Z(G)=langle [x,y]rangle$, without loss, we can assume that
$$x^p=y^p=[x,y].$$
Then $$(yx^{-1})^p=y^px^{-p}[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}.$$
Since $[x^{-1},y]$ is a member of $G'=Z(G)$, it is of order $p$ and for odd $p$, the integer $binom{p}{2}=p(p-1)/2$ is multiple of $p$, so $[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}=1$. Also $y^px^{-p}=1$ (why?) Thus we get
$$(yx^{-1})^p=1.$$
So, instead of $y$ you take new generator $y_1=yx^{-1}$; this is of order $p$, and we move in case (2.1), which is done!






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 13:17










  • $begingroup$
    Also, why does $Z = G'$?
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 17:58






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl Kronenfeld
    Mar 24 at 23:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 23:49














1












1








1





$begingroup$

(1) $G/Z(G)$ is generated by $xZ(G)$ and $yZ(G)$; $Z(G)$ is generated by $[x,y]$ (also note $Z(G)=G'$).



(2) Suppose that not both $x,y$ have order $p$. This implies two cases: $o(x)=p^2$, $o(y)=p$ or $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. [The case $o(x)=p, o(y)=p^2$ has considered, can you see?]



(2.1) Suppose $o(x)=p^2$ and $o(y)=p$. Then $langle yrangle$ is subgroup of order $p$, and $langle yranglecap Z(G)=1$.



Since $xZ(G)$ is of order $p$, so $x^pin Z(G)$, and $x^pneq 1$ (since $o(x)=p^2)$, so without loss, we can take $x^p=[x,y]$. So $langle xrangle$ is group of order $p^2$, it has unique subgroup of order $p$ namely $langle x^prangle$ which is $langle [x,y]rangle$, which is $Z(G)$, and $langle yrangle$ intersects with this trivialy; i.e. $langle xranglecaplangle yrangle=1$. So $G=langle xrangle.langle yrangle=langle x,yrangle$, where $x,y$ satisfy relations (which perhaps you want)
$$x^{p^2}=1, y^p=1, x^p=[x,y]=x^{-1}y^{-1}xy mbox{ i.e. } x^{1+p}=y^{-1}xy.$$



(2.2) Suppose $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. Then point is we can modify one of these two generators to get a new generator of order $p$. How to do this? This requires commutator calculus: since $[x,y]in Z(G)$, so $[x,y]$ commutes with both $x$ and $y$. You can prove that $(xy)^n=x^ny^n[y,x]^{binom{n}{2}}$. (Prove this, use induction on $n$.)
Now we use this. Since $o(X)=o(y)=p^2$, and $x^p,y^pin Z(G)=langle [x,y]rangle$, without loss, we can assume that
$$x^p=y^p=[x,y].$$
Then $$(yx^{-1})^p=y^px^{-p}[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}.$$
Since $[x^{-1},y]$ is a member of $G'=Z(G)$, it is of order $p$ and for odd $p$, the integer $binom{p}{2}=p(p-1)/2$ is multiple of $p$, so $[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}=1$. Also $y^px^{-p}=1$ (why?) Thus we get
$$(yx^{-1})^p=1.$$
So, instead of $y$ you take new generator $y_1=yx^{-1}$; this is of order $p$, and we move in case (2.1), which is done!






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



(1) $G/Z(G)$ is generated by $xZ(G)$ and $yZ(G)$; $Z(G)$ is generated by $[x,y]$ (also note $Z(G)=G'$).



(2) Suppose that not both $x,y$ have order $p$. This implies two cases: $o(x)=p^2$, $o(y)=p$ or $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. [The case $o(x)=p, o(y)=p^2$ has considered, can you see?]



(2.1) Suppose $o(x)=p^2$ and $o(y)=p$. Then $langle yrangle$ is subgroup of order $p$, and $langle yranglecap Z(G)=1$.



Since $xZ(G)$ is of order $p$, so $x^pin Z(G)$, and $x^pneq 1$ (since $o(x)=p^2)$, so without loss, we can take $x^p=[x,y]$. So $langle xrangle$ is group of order $p^2$, it has unique subgroup of order $p$ namely $langle x^prangle$ which is $langle [x,y]rangle$, which is $Z(G)$, and $langle yrangle$ intersects with this trivialy; i.e. $langle xranglecaplangle yrangle=1$. So $G=langle xrangle.langle yrangle=langle x,yrangle$, where $x,y$ satisfy relations (which perhaps you want)
$$x^{p^2}=1, y^p=1, x^p=[x,y]=x^{-1}y^{-1}xy mbox{ i.e. } x^{1+p}=y^{-1}xy.$$



(2.2) Suppose $o(x)=o(y)=p^2$. Then point is we can modify one of these two generators to get a new generator of order $p$. How to do this? This requires commutator calculus: since $[x,y]in Z(G)$, so $[x,y]$ commutes with both $x$ and $y$. You can prove that $(xy)^n=x^ny^n[y,x]^{binom{n}{2}}$. (Prove this, use induction on $n$.)
Now we use this. Since $o(X)=o(y)=p^2$, and $x^p,y^pin Z(G)=langle [x,y]rangle$, without loss, we can assume that
$$x^p=y^p=[x,y].$$
Then $$(yx^{-1})^p=y^px^{-p}[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}.$$
Since $[x^{-1},y]$ is a member of $G'=Z(G)$, it is of order $p$ and for odd $p$, the integer $binom{p}{2}=p(p-1)/2$ is multiple of $p$, so $[x^{-1},y]^{binom{p}{2}}=1$. Also $y^px^{-p}=1$ (why?) Thus we get
$$(yx^{-1})^p=1.$$
So, instead of $y$ you take new generator $y_1=yx^{-1}$; this is of order $p$, and we move in case (2.1), which is done!







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Mar 24 at 5:34









BeginnerBeginner

4,10111226




4,10111226








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 13:17










  • $begingroup$
    Also, why does $Z = G'$?
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 17:58






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl Kronenfeld
    Mar 24 at 23:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 23:49














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 13:17










  • $begingroup$
    Also, why does $Z = G'$?
    $endgroup$
    – user193319
    Mar 24 at 17:58






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
    $endgroup$
    – Karl Kronenfeld
    Mar 24 at 23:46








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
    $endgroup$
    – Arturo Magidin
    Mar 24 at 23:49








1




1




$begingroup$
Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
$endgroup$
– user193319
Mar 24 at 13:17




$begingroup$
Regarding case 2.1, why can we without loss of generality assume $x^p = [x,y]$? You also make this assumption about $x^p$ and $y^p$ in case 2.2., so hopefully you could clarify that, too.
$endgroup$
– user193319
Mar 24 at 13:17












$begingroup$
Also, why does $Z = G'$?
$endgroup$
– user193319
Mar 24 at 17:58




$begingroup$
Also, why does $Z = G'$?
$endgroup$
– user193319
Mar 24 at 17:58




1




1




$begingroup$
@user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
$endgroup$
– Karl Kronenfeld
Mar 24 at 23:46






$begingroup$
@user193319 Write $[x,y]=x^{bp}$; this is possible since $[x,y]inlangle xrangle$ and $|x|=p^2$. Also, $b$ is invertible mod. $p$, because $[x,y]ne 1$. Thus, there exists a multiplicative inverse $c$ of $b$ mod. $p$. Now, because $x$ and $y$ commute with $[x,y]$, we have $[x,y^c]=[x,y]^c$. Furthermore, $[x,y]^c=x^p$. Replacing $y$ with $y^c$, we get the desired equality.
$endgroup$
– Karl Kronenfeld
Mar 24 at 23:46






1




1




$begingroup$
@user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 24 at 23:49




$begingroup$
@user193319: $G’$ is nontrivial because $G$ is not abelian; $G/G’$ is abelian, and any normal subgroup $N$ of $G$ such that $G/N$ is abelian must contain $G’$. Therefore, $G’subseteq Z(G)$, and since $Z(G)$ is order $p$ and $G’$ is of order greater than $1$, the two must be equal.
$endgroup$
– Arturo Magidin
Mar 24 at 23:49


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3159845%2fnon-abelian-groups-of-order-p3%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Nidaros erkebispedøme

Birsay

Where did Arya get these scars? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Favourite questions and answers from the 1st quarter of 2019Why did Arya refuse to end it?Has the pronunciation of Arya Stark's name changed?Has Arya forgiven people?Why did Arya Stark lose her vision?Why can Arya still use the faces?Has the Narrow Sea become narrower?Does Arya Stark know how to make poisons outside of the House of Black and White?Why did Nymeria leave Arya?Why did Arya not kill the Lannister soldiers she encountered in the Riverlands?What is the current canonical age of Sansa, Bran and Arya Stark?