Can we have a perfect cadence in a minor key? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679:...
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Can we have a perfect cadence in a minor key?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Do different modes have the same cadence structure?Name for a group of notes made up of a root, major third, and perfect 4th?Making part of a triad chord sharper, but is it counted as minor?Triads with thirds that aren't major or minor?Name for major/minor ambiguity in cadenceIs this cadence correctly written?Is this an imperfect authentic cadence in a minor key?Is there a specific name for the use of IV chord over the V in the bass, e.g. F/G in the key of CIs the sense of resolution of a harmonic cadence psychologically “intrinsic”, or is it created through conditioning?Understanding the concept of a “Cadence”
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
add a comment |
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
add a comment |
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
I understand that, at least in the context of using a major scale, a perfect cadence is V-I. That is, if I were playing a piece in C major, I could play a chord similiar to the G major triad followed by a chord similar to the C major triad.*
What about in a minor key? If my piece is in the key of A minor, would I achieve a perfect cadence by playing an E major chord followed by an A major chord? Or would I instead have to play an E minor chord followed by an A minor chord?
Footnotes:
*I know that some theorists say that its not a perfect cadence unless the highest note of the I chord is the tonic note. For my purposes, however, I'm not using that convention.
theory chords cadence
theory chords cadence
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
edited Mar 24 at 19:00
Richard
46.1k7112198
46.1k7112198
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
asked Mar 24 at 14:54
Pascal's WagerPascal's Wager
1162
1162
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
|
show 2 more comments
Yes. It is possible to have a perfect cadence in a minor key. The final chord needn't be major: in the key of a minor, the chords E major followed by a minor are a V-i cadence, which is a perfect cadence.
(It doesn't matter what notes are on the tops of either of the chords.)
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
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For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
add a comment |
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
add a comment |
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
For starters, we can call this cadence an authentic cadence, since by definition that is understood to be a V–I motion. The highest note distinguishes between perfect and imperfect authentic cadences.
With that said, an authentic cadence is simply a root-position dominant moving to a root-position tonic. Whether tonic is major or minor will not affect the quality of the cadence.
In fact, the quality of the tonic chord can be opposite of what you expect and still be considered a perfect authentic cadence. This is pretty intuitive in minor; ending on a major tonic almost makes the cadence more final. But even in major, if we suddenly cadence onto a minor tonic, this is still a perfect authentic cadence. (Although we'd certainly want to clarify that it's attenuated in some way with the unexpected shift to minor.)
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
answered Mar 24 at 15:00
RichardRichard
46.1k7112198
46.1k7112198
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
add a comment |
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
2
2
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
'Imperfect authentic' cadence gets dangerously close to the UK 'imperfect cadence', which is the reverse of our 'perfect' cadence, i.e. I>V. Confusing, init?
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:21
add a comment |
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
|
show 2 more comments
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
|
show 2 more comments
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
Americans seem to call a 'Perfect cadence' an 'Authentic cadence'. And there's this new thing a 'Perfect Authentic cadence'. OK, whatever. Dominant to tonic. Perfect (or Authentic) cadence.
This is a Common Practice, Functional Harmony thing. A world where minor scales are Harmonic (at cadence points, at any rate), dominant chords are major and thus include the leading note. But tonics can be minor. The urge to 'regularise' a final cadence in a minor key with a Tierce di Picardie was not always followed!
So, G7 - C is a Perfect cadence. So is E7 - Am. And we don't have to change that to E7 - A in order to make it one.
Em - Am does happen, and it has every right to be considered some sort of a cadence. But it isn't a Perfect one.
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
answered Mar 24 at 15:41
Laurence PayneLaurence Payne
37.8k1872
37.8k1872
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
|
show 2 more comments
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
3
3
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
I have music theory books written in the 1970s that teach the “perfect authentic cadence”. I’m not sure how old the term is beyond that but I’m not convinced it’s “new”.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 16:54
2
2
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
@ToddWilcox - probably not that new, but certainly U.S. based. In U.K. it's not a term used often, in fact, in exams, the four main cadences are the only ones used: perfect, imperfect, interrupted and plagal. Not sure, but U.S. most likely don't use any of those terms!
– Tim
Mar 24 at 17:26
2
2
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
@Tim I was taught all of those terms. In the U.S.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:20
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
A book called Woodruff’s Comprehensive Music Course from 1899 has a section on the “perfect authentic cadence”. It does appear to be an American book.
– Todd Wilcox
Mar 24 at 18:27
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
@ToddWilcox - it would be good to have a list of all cadences, to use as a reference point.
– Tim
Mar 24 at 18:42
|
show 2 more comments
Yes. It is possible to have a perfect cadence in a minor key. The final chord needn't be major: in the key of a minor, the chords E major followed by a minor are a V-i cadence, which is a perfect cadence.
(It doesn't matter what notes are on the tops of either of the chords.)
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
add a comment |
Yes. It is possible to have a perfect cadence in a minor key. The final chord needn't be major: in the key of a minor, the chords E major followed by a minor are a V-i cadence, which is a perfect cadence.
(It doesn't matter what notes are on the tops of either of the chords.)
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
add a comment |
Yes. It is possible to have a perfect cadence in a minor key. The final chord needn't be major: in the key of a minor, the chords E major followed by a minor are a V-i cadence, which is a perfect cadence.
(It doesn't matter what notes are on the tops of either of the chords.)
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
Yes. It is possible to have a perfect cadence in a minor key. The final chord needn't be major: in the key of a minor, the chords E major followed by a minor are a V-i cadence, which is a perfect cadence.
(It doesn't matter what notes are on the tops of either of the chords.)
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
answered Mar 25 at 21:24
Rosie FRosie F
1,489314
1,489314
add a comment |
add a comment |
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