Proof of upper semi-continuity of sheaf cohomology Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate...

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Proof of upper semi-continuity of sheaf cohomology



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Proof of 4.3.12 in Liu: dimension of fiber and flatnessTwo questions on the definition of $mathcal{O}_X(U)$ for an affine scheme $X$.Question concerning Mumford's Abelian VarietiesPrincipal open sets of affine schemesFiber of morphism induced by map on stalksFiber of morphism homeomorphic to $f^{-1}(y)$Serre's Trick for flatness of a morphism of schemes$O_X$ is structural sheaf of affine scheme $X=Spec A$. Then $pin Spec A$, $A_potimes O_X(U)cong A_p$ for $pin Usubset X$ as open subsetProve a ring isomorphism of stalksCondition on the stalks for a morphism $X rightarrow S$ to be unramified












1












$begingroup$


$DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$
$DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
Hello Math.Stackexchange.com-Community.



Sorry for asking two questions at the same time, however they are part of one single step in a proof and hence closely related.
My questions arise from the following context:



Let $Xto Y$ be a proper morphism between locally noetherian Schemes and let $mathcal{F}$ be a coherent $mathcal{O}_X$-module on $X$ which is flat over $mathcal{O}_Y$.
Then for all $pgeq 0$ the function $h^p(-,mathcal{F})colon Ytomathbb{N}$ which is defined by
$h^p(y,mathcal{F}):=dim_{kappa(y)}H^p(X_y,mathcal{F}|_{X_y})$
is upper semi-continuous in the sense that for all $cinmathbb{R}$ the set ${yin Ymid h^p(y,mathcal{F})leq c}$ is open.



In order to prove this, the following lemma was invoked:



Lemma:
Let $A$ be a noetherian ring.
Let $deltacolon Mto F$ be a morphism between finitely-generated $A$-modules, of which $F$ is free.
Then, the function $gcolon Spec(A)to mathbb{N}$ defined by
$g(mathfrak{p}):=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{delta_{mathfrak{p}}:=deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))$ is upper semi-continuous.



My question arises in the proof of this lemma, which goes as follows:



Proof
Let $mu_1,cdots,mu_sin M$ be elements, such that the images $overline{mu_1},cdots,overline{mu_s}in Motimes_Akappa(mathfrak{p})$ form a basis of that vector space, and such that $delta_{mathfrak{p}}(overline{mu_i})$ vanish for $i=1,cdots,r=g(mathfrak{p})$ and form a basis of $im(delta_{mathfrak{p}})$ for $i=r+1,cdots,s$.



Here comes the part that I don't understand, and also my first question:



Since the assertion is local near any $mathfrak{p}$ we may replace $A$ by $A_f$ for $fnot inmathfrak{p}$ and assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdotsmu_s$ as an $A$ module.



The last assertion is clear to me. This is a Nakayama-Style argument.
It is however not clear to me, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and why this implies, that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Aside from this argument, it is also not clear to me, how to prove by hand (i.e. without using the "near $mathfrak{p}$"-Argument) why we may replace $A$ by $A_f$.



I tried and failed as follows:
Assume that we may find a covering by $D(f_j)$'s of $Spec(A)$ such that the morphisms $g_jcolon Spec(A_{f_j})tomathbb{N}, g_j(mathfrak{p}_j)=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))$ is EDIT: locally constant upper semi-continuous, where by $mathfrak{p}_j$ I mean the prime ideal in $Spec(A_{f_j})$ corresponding to $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



Then it would suffice if one could show that this implies, that the restrictions of $g$ to the $D(f_j)$ are upper semi-continuous.



In order to show this one would have to show, that for every $cinmathbb{R}$ we have $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))leq c$ for all $j$ iff $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))leq c$ for all prime ideals $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



This is the point where I don't see how to continue.



My second question is why we may construct a basis for $M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p_{f_j}})$ out of the basis for $Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})$ such that it still has the properties we set up in the beginning of the proof, so that we may carry on with the proof after replacing $A$ by $A_f$.



Thank You for your participation!










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$
    $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
    Hello Math.Stackexchange.com-Community.



    Sorry for asking two questions at the same time, however they are part of one single step in a proof and hence closely related.
    My questions arise from the following context:



    Let $Xto Y$ be a proper morphism between locally noetherian Schemes and let $mathcal{F}$ be a coherent $mathcal{O}_X$-module on $X$ which is flat over $mathcal{O}_Y$.
    Then for all $pgeq 0$ the function $h^p(-,mathcal{F})colon Ytomathbb{N}$ which is defined by
    $h^p(y,mathcal{F}):=dim_{kappa(y)}H^p(X_y,mathcal{F}|_{X_y})$
    is upper semi-continuous in the sense that for all $cinmathbb{R}$ the set ${yin Ymid h^p(y,mathcal{F})leq c}$ is open.



    In order to prove this, the following lemma was invoked:



    Lemma:
    Let $A$ be a noetherian ring.
    Let $deltacolon Mto F$ be a morphism between finitely-generated $A$-modules, of which $F$ is free.
    Then, the function $gcolon Spec(A)to mathbb{N}$ defined by
    $g(mathfrak{p}):=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{delta_{mathfrak{p}}:=deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))$ is upper semi-continuous.



    My question arises in the proof of this lemma, which goes as follows:



    Proof
    Let $mu_1,cdots,mu_sin M$ be elements, such that the images $overline{mu_1},cdots,overline{mu_s}in Motimes_Akappa(mathfrak{p})$ form a basis of that vector space, and such that $delta_{mathfrak{p}}(overline{mu_i})$ vanish for $i=1,cdots,r=g(mathfrak{p})$ and form a basis of $im(delta_{mathfrak{p}})$ for $i=r+1,cdots,s$.



    Here comes the part that I don't understand, and also my first question:



    Since the assertion is local near any $mathfrak{p}$ we may replace $A$ by $A_f$ for $fnot inmathfrak{p}$ and assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdotsmu_s$ as an $A$ module.



    The last assertion is clear to me. This is a Nakayama-Style argument.
    It is however not clear to me, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and why this implies, that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Aside from this argument, it is also not clear to me, how to prove by hand (i.e. without using the "near $mathfrak{p}$"-Argument) why we may replace $A$ by $A_f$.



    I tried and failed as follows:
    Assume that we may find a covering by $D(f_j)$'s of $Spec(A)$ such that the morphisms $g_jcolon Spec(A_{f_j})tomathbb{N}, g_j(mathfrak{p}_j)=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))$ is EDIT: locally constant upper semi-continuous, where by $mathfrak{p}_j$ I mean the prime ideal in $Spec(A_{f_j})$ corresponding to $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



    Then it would suffice if one could show that this implies, that the restrictions of $g$ to the $D(f_j)$ are upper semi-continuous.



    In order to show this one would have to show, that for every $cinmathbb{R}$ we have $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))leq c$ for all $j$ iff $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))leq c$ for all prime ideals $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



    This is the point where I don't see how to continue.



    My second question is why we may construct a basis for $M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p_{f_j}})$ out of the basis for $Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})$ such that it still has the properties we set up in the beginning of the proof, so that we may carry on with the proof after replacing $A$ by $A_f$.



    Thank You for your participation!










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$
      $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
      Hello Math.Stackexchange.com-Community.



      Sorry for asking two questions at the same time, however they are part of one single step in a proof and hence closely related.
      My questions arise from the following context:



      Let $Xto Y$ be a proper morphism between locally noetherian Schemes and let $mathcal{F}$ be a coherent $mathcal{O}_X$-module on $X$ which is flat over $mathcal{O}_Y$.
      Then for all $pgeq 0$ the function $h^p(-,mathcal{F})colon Ytomathbb{N}$ which is defined by
      $h^p(y,mathcal{F}):=dim_{kappa(y)}H^p(X_y,mathcal{F}|_{X_y})$
      is upper semi-continuous in the sense that for all $cinmathbb{R}$ the set ${yin Ymid h^p(y,mathcal{F})leq c}$ is open.



      In order to prove this, the following lemma was invoked:



      Lemma:
      Let $A$ be a noetherian ring.
      Let $deltacolon Mto F$ be a morphism between finitely-generated $A$-modules, of which $F$ is free.
      Then, the function $gcolon Spec(A)to mathbb{N}$ defined by
      $g(mathfrak{p}):=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{delta_{mathfrak{p}}:=deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))$ is upper semi-continuous.



      My question arises in the proof of this lemma, which goes as follows:



      Proof
      Let $mu_1,cdots,mu_sin M$ be elements, such that the images $overline{mu_1},cdots,overline{mu_s}in Motimes_Akappa(mathfrak{p})$ form a basis of that vector space, and such that $delta_{mathfrak{p}}(overline{mu_i})$ vanish for $i=1,cdots,r=g(mathfrak{p})$ and form a basis of $im(delta_{mathfrak{p}})$ for $i=r+1,cdots,s$.



      Here comes the part that I don't understand, and also my first question:



      Since the assertion is local near any $mathfrak{p}$ we may replace $A$ by $A_f$ for $fnot inmathfrak{p}$ and assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdotsmu_s$ as an $A$ module.



      The last assertion is clear to me. This is a Nakayama-Style argument.
      It is however not clear to me, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and why this implies, that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Aside from this argument, it is also not clear to me, how to prove by hand (i.e. without using the "near $mathfrak{p}$"-Argument) why we may replace $A$ by $A_f$.



      I tried and failed as follows:
      Assume that we may find a covering by $D(f_j)$'s of $Spec(A)$ such that the morphisms $g_jcolon Spec(A_{f_j})tomathbb{N}, g_j(mathfrak{p}_j)=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))$ is EDIT: locally constant upper semi-continuous, where by $mathfrak{p}_j$ I mean the prime ideal in $Spec(A_{f_j})$ corresponding to $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



      Then it would suffice if one could show that this implies, that the restrictions of $g$ to the $D(f_j)$ are upper semi-continuous.



      In order to show this one would have to show, that for every $cinmathbb{R}$ we have $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))leq c$ for all $j$ iff $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))leq c$ for all prime ideals $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



      This is the point where I don't see how to continue.



      My second question is why we may construct a basis for $M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p_{f_j}})$ out of the basis for $Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})$ such that it still has the properties we set up in the beginning of the proof, so that we may carry on with the proof after replacing $A$ by $A_f$.



      Thank You for your participation!










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$
      $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
      Hello Math.Stackexchange.com-Community.



      Sorry for asking two questions at the same time, however they are part of one single step in a proof and hence closely related.
      My questions arise from the following context:



      Let $Xto Y$ be a proper morphism between locally noetherian Schemes and let $mathcal{F}$ be a coherent $mathcal{O}_X$-module on $X$ which is flat over $mathcal{O}_Y$.
      Then for all $pgeq 0$ the function $h^p(-,mathcal{F})colon Ytomathbb{N}$ which is defined by
      $h^p(y,mathcal{F}):=dim_{kappa(y)}H^p(X_y,mathcal{F}|_{X_y})$
      is upper semi-continuous in the sense that for all $cinmathbb{R}$ the set ${yin Ymid h^p(y,mathcal{F})leq c}$ is open.



      In order to prove this, the following lemma was invoked:



      Lemma:
      Let $A$ be a noetherian ring.
      Let $deltacolon Mto F$ be a morphism between finitely-generated $A$-modules, of which $F$ is free.
      Then, the function $gcolon Spec(A)to mathbb{N}$ defined by
      $g(mathfrak{p}):=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{delta_{mathfrak{p}}:=deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))$ is upper semi-continuous.



      My question arises in the proof of this lemma, which goes as follows:



      Proof
      Let $mu_1,cdots,mu_sin M$ be elements, such that the images $overline{mu_1},cdots,overline{mu_s}in Motimes_Akappa(mathfrak{p})$ form a basis of that vector space, and such that $delta_{mathfrak{p}}(overline{mu_i})$ vanish for $i=1,cdots,r=g(mathfrak{p})$ and form a basis of $im(delta_{mathfrak{p}})$ for $i=r+1,cdots,s$.



      Here comes the part that I don't understand, and also my first question:



      Since the assertion is local near any $mathfrak{p}$ we may replace $A$ by $A_f$ for $fnot inmathfrak{p}$ and assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdotsmu_s$ as an $A$ module.



      The last assertion is clear to me. This is a Nakayama-Style argument.
      It is however not clear to me, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and why this implies, that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Aside from this argument, it is also not clear to me, how to prove by hand (i.e. without using the "near $mathfrak{p}$"-Argument) why we may replace $A$ by $A_f$.



      I tried and failed as follows:
      Assume that we may find a covering by $D(f_j)$'s of $Spec(A)$ such that the morphisms $g_jcolon Spec(A_{f_j})tomathbb{N}, g_j(mathfrak{p}_j)=dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))$ is EDIT: locally constant upper semi-continuous, where by $mathfrak{p}_j$ I mean the prime ideal in $Spec(A_{f_j})$ corresponding to $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



      Then it would suffice if one could show that this implies, that the restrictions of $g$ to the $D(f_j)$ are upper semi-continuous.



      In order to show this one would have to show, that for every $cinmathbb{R}$ we have $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p}_j)}(ker(M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j})to F_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p}_{f_j}))leq c$ for all $j$ iff $dim_{kappa(mathfrak{p})}(ker(Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})overset{deltaotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})}{to} Fotimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p}))leq c$ for all prime ideals $mathfrak{p}in D(f_j)$.



      This is the point where I don't see how to continue.



      My second question is why we may construct a basis for $M_{f_j}otimes_{A_{f_j}}kappa(mathfrak{p_{f_j}})$ out of the basis for $Motimes_A kappa(mathfrak{p})$ such that it still has the properties we set up in the beginning of the proof, so that we may carry on with the proof after replacing $A$ by $A_f$.



      Thank You for your participation!







      algebraic-geometry sheaf-cohomology






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




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      edited Mar 24 at 19:14







      sdigr

















      asked Mar 24 at 12:41









      sdigrsdigr

      163




      163






















          1 Answer
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          $begingroup$

          Let me answer your first question. I will use the following setup:
          $A$ a noetherian ring, $M$ a finitely generated $A$-module, and $p$ a prime ideal of $A$. We show that if $M_p$ is generated by the images of $x_1,dots, x_n in M$, then there exists $f in A$ such that $M_f$ is generated by the images of the same set of elements.



          Let $N$ be the $A$-submodule of $M$ generated by $x_1,dots, x_n$, and let $K$ be the cokernel of the inclusion map $N to M$.
          Our goal is to find an element $f in A$ such that $K_f = 0$.
          If $K$ is $0$, then there is nothing to do. Assume that $K neq 0$.
          Consider the support of $K$. Since $K$ is finitely generated $Supp(K)$ is determined by an $A$-ideal $I$, and since $p$ is not in it, $I$ is a proper ideal. Hence we may choose any nonzero element in $I$ for $f$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:55












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:59












          • $begingroup$
            Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – Youngsu
            Mar 24 at 19:25










          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 20:03












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 25 at 10:26














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          $begingroup$

          Let me answer your first question. I will use the following setup:
          $A$ a noetherian ring, $M$ a finitely generated $A$-module, and $p$ a prime ideal of $A$. We show that if $M_p$ is generated by the images of $x_1,dots, x_n in M$, then there exists $f in A$ such that $M_f$ is generated by the images of the same set of elements.



          Let $N$ be the $A$-submodule of $M$ generated by $x_1,dots, x_n$, and let $K$ be the cokernel of the inclusion map $N to M$.
          Our goal is to find an element $f in A$ such that $K_f = 0$.
          If $K$ is $0$, then there is nothing to do. Assume that $K neq 0$.
          Consider the support of $K$. Since $K$ is finitely generated $Supp(K)$ is determined by an $A$-ideal $I$, and since $p$ is not in it, $I$ is a proper ideal. Hence we may choose any nonzero element in $I$ for $f$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:55












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:59












          • $begingroup$
            Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – Youngsu
            Mar 24 at 19:25










          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 20:03












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 25 at 10:26


















          1












          $begingroup$

          Let me answer your first question. I will use the following setup:
          $A$ a noetherian ring, $M$ a finitely generated $A$-module, and $p$ a prime ideal of $A$. We show that if $M_p$ is generated by the images of $x_1,dots, x_n in M$, then there exists $f in A$ such that $M_f$ is generated by the images of the same set of elements.



          Let $N$ be the $A$-submodule of $M$ generated by $x_1,dots, x_n$, and let $K$ be the cokernel of the inclusion map $N to M$.
          Our goal is to find an element $f in A$ such that $K_f = 0$.
          If $K$ is $0$, then there is nothing to do. Assume that $K neq 0$.
          Consider the support of $K$. Since $K$ is finitely generated $Supp(K)$ is determined by an $A$-ideal $I$, and since $p$ is not in it, $I$ is a proper ideal. Hence we may choose any nonzero element in $I$ for $f$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:55












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:59












          • $begingroup$
            Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – Youngsu
            Mar 24 at 19:25










          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 20:03












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 25 at 10:26
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Let me answer your first question. I will use the following setup:
          $A$ a noetherian ring, $M$ a finitely generated $A$-module, and $p$ a prime ideal of $A$. We show that if $M_p$ is generated by the images of $x_1,dots, x_n in M$, then there exists $f in A$ such that $M_f$ is generated by the images of the same set of elements.



          Let $N$ be the $A$-submodule of $M$ generated by $x_1,dots, x_n$, and let $K$ be the cokernel of the inclusion map $N to M$.
          Our goal is to find an element $f in A$ such that $K_f = 0$.
          If $K$ is $0$, then there is nothing to do. Assume that $K neq 0$.
          Consider the support of $K$. Since $K$ is finitely generated $Supp(K)$ is determined by an $A$-ideal $I$, and since $p$ is not in it, $I$ is a proper ideal. Hence we may choose any nonzero element in $I$ for $f$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Let me answer your first question. I will use the following setup:
          $A$ a noetherian ring, $M$ a finitely generated $A$-module, and $p$ a prime ideal of $A$. We show that if $M_p$ is generated by the images of $x_1,dots, x_n in M$, then there exists $f in A$ such that $M_f$ is generated by the images of the same set of elements.



          Let $N$ be the $A$-submodule of $M$ generated by $x_1,dots, x_n$, and let $K$ be the cokernel of the inclusion map $N to M$.
          Our goal is to find an element $f in A$ such that $K_f = 0$.
          If $K$ is $0$, then there is nothing to do. Assume that $K neq 0$.
          Consider the support of $K$. Since $K$ is finitely generated $Supp(K)$ is determined by an $A$-ideal $I$, and since $p$ is not in it, $I$ is a proper ideal. Hence we may choose any nonzero element in $I$ for $f$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Mar 24 at 18:22









          YoungsuYoungsu

          1,888715




          1,888715












          • $begingroup$
            Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:55












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:59












          • $begingroup$
            Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – Youngsu
            Mar 24 at 19:25










          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 20:03












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 25 at 10:26




















          • $begingroup$
            Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:55












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 18:59












          • $begingroup$
            Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – Youngsu
            Mar 24 at 19:25










          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 24 at 20:03












          • $begingroup$
            $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
            $endgroup$
            – sdigr
            Mar 25 at 10:26


















          $begingroup$
          Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 18:55






          $begingroup$
          Hello. Thank You for the answer. However I don't see how this answers any of my questions. My first question was, what "local near $mathfrak{p}$" means, and how it implies that we may replace $A$ by $A_f$. Could You clarify in a little more detail, how exactly this fact from Commutative Algebra answers my question?
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 18:55














          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 18:59






          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$ $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}$ Furthermore, what means "determined by"? I know, that if $M$ is a finitely generated $A$-module then $Supp(M)=V(Ann(M))$, but if I take any nonzero element $fin Ann(M)=I$ then $M_f=0$, since $frac{m}{f^k}=frac{fm}{f^{k+1}}=0$.
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 18:59














          $begingroup$
          Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
          $endgroup$
          – Youngsu
          Mar 24 at 19:25




          $begingroup$
          Your argument in the 2nd comment is correct. Since we want $N_f = M_f$, it is equivalent to $(M/N)_f = 0$ (in my post, I used $L$ for $M/N$). For your first comment, $p$ is in $Spec A - V(I)$, hence $p$ is in $D(f) = Spec A - V(f)$.
          $endgroup$
          – Youngsu
          Mar 24 at 19:25












          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 20:03






          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Supp}{Supp}DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}DeclareMathOperator{Ann}{Ann}$Ok. My doubt in the second comment is clear now, I just confused $K$ with $M$. However I still don't see which of my questions You are answering and how. I have no doubts about $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I)$ (what is$ I$? Do, You mean $I=Ann(M)$?) $implies mathfrak{p}in D(f)$, but which of my question does this answer and how? If you mean $I=Ann(M)$, then $mathfrak{p}inSpec(A)setminus V(I) implies M_{mathfrak{p}}=0$ by definition of $Supp(−)$
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 24 at 20:03














          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 25 at 10:26






          $begingroup$
          $DeclareMathOperator{Spec}{Spec}$I think your argument only shows that we may - after localization - assume that $M$ is generated by the $mu_1,cdots,mu_s$, but that was already clear to me (as I pointed out) by another (somewhat different ) Nakayama-style argument. What really concerns me are the other questions, for instance, why is the construction of the map $g$ compatible with $Spec(A_f)cong D(f)$.
          $endgroup$
          – sdigr
          Mar 25 at 10:26




















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