Professor forcing me to attend a conference, I can't afford even with 50% fundingHow to attend conferences...
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Professor forcing me to attend a conference, I can't afford even with 50% funding
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I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university), a professor (call him M.) and I worked on a paper on banking regulations. Apart from the single idea, all of the paper and results were done by me. We worked on it for a couple of months and tried to submit our work at many journals (all of them were rejected). Finally, it has been accepted recently at a conference. This conference is not major league but niche.
My Prof. M wants me to attend but I do not have funding. Initially, he expected me to spend from my own pocket for travel and registration (around USD 2000). Being a graduate student and living in one of the expensive cities, I am living life on a hand to mouth existence. So, I informed him politely that I am not keen to attend due to my inability to fund myself. He asks me to apply to funding agencies or else he is willing to fund 50% of my expenses.
The matter of fact is that I cannot even afford even 50% of the travel expenses. Out of nowhere, this conference comes up and it further cripples my shoestring budget. I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof. M, but if I don't he'll assume that I can afford the travel.
conference funding travel
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show 12 more comments
I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university), a professor (call him M.) and I worked on a paper on banking regulations. Apart from the single idea, all of the paper and results were done by me. We worked on it for a couple of months and tried to submit our work at many journals (all of them were rejected). Finally, it has been accepted recently at a conference. This conference is not major league but niche.
My Prof. M wants me to attend but I do not have funding. Initially, he expected me to spend from my own pocket for travel and registration (around USD 2000). Being a graduate student and living in one of the expensive cities, I am living life on a hand to mouth existence. So, I informed him politely that I am not keen to attend due to my inability to fund myself. He asks me to apply to funding agencies or else he is willing to fund 50% of my expenses.
The matter of fact is that I cannot even afford even 50% of the travel expenses. Out of nowhere, this conference comes up and it further cripples my shoestring budget. I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof. M, but if I don't he'll assume that I can afford the travel.
conference funding travel
9
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
68
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
32
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
9
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
8
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university), a professor (call him M.) and I worked on a paper on banking regulations. Apart from the single idea, all of the paper and results were done by me. We worked on it for a couple of months and tried to submit our work at many journals (all of them were rejected). Finally, it has been accepted recently at a conference. This conference is not major league but niche.
My Prof. M wants me to attend but I do not have funding. Initially, he expected me to spend from my own pocket for travel and registration (around USD 2000). Being a graduate student and living in one of the expensive cities, I am living life on a hand to mouth existence. So, I informed him politely that I am not keen to attend due to my inability to fund myself. He asks me to apply to funding agencies or else he is willing to fund 50% of my expenses.
The matter of fact is that I cannot even afford even 50% of the travel expenses. Out of nowhere, this conference comes up and it further cripples my shoestring budget. I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof. M, but if I don't he'll assume that I can afford the travel.
conference funding travel
I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university), a professor (call him M.) and I worked on a paper on banking regulations. Apart from the single idea, all of the paper and results were done by me. We worked on it for a couple of months and tried to submit our work at many journals (all of them were rejected). Finally, it has been accepted recently at a conference. This conference is not major league but niche.
My Prof. M wants me to attend but I do not have funding. Initially, he expected me to spend from my own pocket for travel and registration (around USD 2000). Being a graduate student and living in one of the expensive cities, I am living life on a hand to mouth existence. So, I informed him politely that I am not keen to attend due to my inability to fund myself. He asks me to apply to funding agencies or else he is willing to fund 50% of my expenses.
The matter of fact is that I cannot even afford even 50% of the travel expenses. Out of nowhere, this conference comes up and it further cripples my shoestring budget. I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof. M, but if I don't he'll assume that I can afford the travel.
conference funding travel
conference funding travel
edited 13 hours ago
smci
1,5651017
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asked yesterday
kasakasa
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9
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
68
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
32
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
9
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
8
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
9
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
68
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
32
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
9
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
8
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago
9
9
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
68
68
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
32
32
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
9
9
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
8
8
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
8 Answers
8
active
oldest
votes
I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof.
M, or else he assumes that I can afford the travel.
I think you need to get past this. You do not have financial shortcomings, you just don't have money. Working on a PhD without family financial support, with existing student debt, and with limited school support is not easy. I respect you for doing it. Take pride in making the hard choices that involves.
With that attitude, explain to Prof. M that you cannot afford any travel expense, and will only be able to go to the conference if your expenses are fully covered. Check any funding sources he suggested, and ask advisors at your current university if they know of any sources.
If you can't get the full funding you need, tell Prof. M. that you regret you cannot attend the conference. At the worst, you will have to withdraw the paper. However, there are alternatives the conference may permit.
- Remote video presentation
- If anyone from your current university is attending, ask them to present the paper
- Prof M. may be able to get a current student or a collaborator who is attending the conference to present it.
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Late 50s is "frailing age"?
I don't see anybody "forcing" you to do anything. Prof M has given you some reasonable suggestions:
- apply for funding
- an offer to fund 50% of your expenses.
If the latter option doesn't work for you, you are left with either the first option: apply for funding, or other options such as A) Not going, or B) further explaining your financial situation in the hope that the professor might be able to offer more towards expenses. If you are hoping for (B) it would be best for you to at least first attempt to find other funding, as the professor suggested.
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your professor has made a generous offer if these were personal funds, I think. Your situation is difficult, I also think. It would be good if you could find a way to go, both for now and for your future prospects, both with the (prime age) professor and in meeting people.
So, the issue becomes funding. The first thing you might do is look for funding locally. It is entirely possible that your university has some funds that can be used to support students in such things. The place to start is with the department head, I would guess. See if there is some travel monies available as they certainly have for faculty. If not in the department, then possibly at a higher level in the university.
You may also belong to a professional organization as a student member. Many of these have travel grants available. You might look there.
Another possible option is funding from the conference itself. Some conferences have some funds for student attendees. In some cases the students serve as "volunteers" during the conference, running errands, but can also attend as usual. The conference web site may have something about this, and the organizers may be able to offer suggestions if contacted.
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Going to a conference as a PhD student is like a business trip if you were a regular employee at a company. And those are of course entirely paid by your employer, and asking an employee to pay for a business trip out of their own pocket would be extremely unusual.
I'm not very familiar with fields where it's customary to publish on conferences instead of journals. But it seems to me that this is also similar to asking someone to pay any journal fees from personal funds, which again is extremely unusual and would typically be paid from research grants. Ensuring the logistics of publication, including how to pay for this is part of the job of a principal investigator, that should not fall on the students.
Your personal financial situation doesn't even matter, it is quite unreasonable to ask you to pay for essentially business expenses from your own personal money. So follow the advice of your professor about applying for money to fund your conference trip. But you can decline to fund it yourself without saying anything about your personal finances.
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
add a comment |
The professor is expecting you to make a serious good-faith effort to obtain funding. Based on your question, it sounds like you have not made any applications or enquiries about funding for conference attendance, but are assuming that there is no funding available (sadly, this is often true, but you are expected to try before giving up).
So, you should do a bit of research into where you might be able to get funding (as well as sources within your institution, you should check whether any learned societies or trusts have professional development funds for graduate students and/or for your area of research), and submit several applications to places where you may be eligible (in your application, indicate that you already have 50% funded -- this is generally considered a good thing by funders). By all means, ask your professor for pointers or leads as to where you might investigate.
Funding applications are a tedious and demoralising chore, but you need to get used to doing them. It is perfectly reasonable for your professor to expect you to make such applications. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to ask your professor to check your applications before you submit them (he/she may be able to offer valuable advice as to how to "sell" your funding application better).
If, after having made several funding applications, you still do not have enough funding to cover the cost, then your professor should be understanding, and should not expect you to pay for it out of your own pocket.
New contributor
add a comment |
I am making my comment an answer.
I think you should suggest that Prof. M attends the conference and presents the paper* for a number of reasons:
- Prof. M is the senior author in the work;
- probably earns a lot more than you; and
- will likely have access to extra grant funds to fund the trip.
You can phrase it along these lines:
Dear Prof. M,
Whilst I would welcome presenting the work at the conference, sadly my
financial doesn't allow to spend such an amount to travel. I sit
possible for you to attend the conference and present the work?
Adding to that, and because I have been in this situation, I don't it is reasonable to insist that a student attend conference out of his/her pocket. It can certainly be suggested but not insisted upon. The financial situation of most students is precarious at best, and in my experience there is very little benefit going to self-funded conferences during the first PhD year, in particular for a project that, as far as you are concerned is dead. The only person that can gain from obtaining feedback is your former supervisor.
*Unless this is one of rare instances that a conference requests the first author to present the work.
add a comment |
- Is he your employer? Then he will pay the expenses for something which is mandatory for this employment.
- Is he not your employer? Then he can't "force" you.
I don't see the problem.
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
add a comment |
At the European universities that I have worked, PhD students are seen as employees and thus receive a salary and their conference visits are paid for by the university. Often research projects have special budget for this. Master students with good and useful results will sometimes also be allowed to visit a conference at the expense of the department. Requiring you to (partially) pay to represent the university at a conference is cheapskating from your professor and degrading for you. Don't do it.
New contributor
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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8 Answers
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8 Answers
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I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof.
M, or else he assumes that I can afford the travel.
I think you need to get past this. You do not have financial shortcomings, you just don't have money. Working on a PhD without family financial support, with existing student debt, and with limited school support is not easy. I respect you for doing it. Take pride in making the hard choices that involves.
With that attitude, explain to Prof. M that you cannot afford any travel expense, and will only be able to go to the conference if your expenses are fully covered. Check any funding sources he suggested, and ask advisors at your current university if they know of any sources.
If you can't get the full funding you need, tell Prof. M. that you regret you cannot attend the conference. At the worst, you will have to withdraw the paper. However, there are alternatives the conference may permit.
- Remote video presentation
- If anyone from your current university is attending, ask them to present the paper
- Prof M. may be able to get a current student or a collaborator who is attending the conference to present it.
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof.
M, or else he assumes that I can afford the travel.
I think you need to get past this. You do not have financial shortcomings, you just don't have money. Working on a PhD without family financial support, with existing student debt, and with limited school support is not easy. I respect you for doing it. Take pride in making the hard choices that involves.
With that attitude, explain to Prof. M that you cannot afford any travel expense, and will only be able to go to the conference if your expenses are fully covered. Check any funding sources he suggested, and ask advisors at your current university if they know of any sources.
If you can't get the full funding you need, tell Prof. M. that you regret you cannot attend the conference. At the worst, you will have to withdraw the paper. However, there are alternatives the conference may permit.
- Remote video presentation
- If anyone from your current university is attending, ask them to present the paper
- Prof M. may be able to get a current student or a collaborator who is attending the conference to present it.
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof.
M, or else he assumes that I can afford the travel.
I think you need to get past this. You do not have financial shortcomings, you just don't have money. Working on a PhD without family financial support, with existing student debt, and with limited school support is not easy. I respect you for doing it. Take pride in making the hard choices that involves.
With that attitude, explain to Prof. M that you cannot afford any travel expense, and will only be able to go to the conference if your expenses are fully covered. Check any funding sources he suggested, and ask advisors at your current university if they know of any sources.
If you can't get the full funding you need, tell Prof. M. that you regret you cannot attend the conference. At the worst, you will have to withdraw the paper. However, there are alternatives the conference may permit.
- Remote video presentation
- If anyone from your current university is attending, ask them to present the paper
- Prof M. may be able to get a current student or a collaborator who is attending the conference to present it.
I am really hesitant to discuss my financial shortcomings with Prof.
M, or else he assumes that I can afford the travel.
I think you need to get past this. You do not have financial shortcomings, you just don't have money. Working on a PhD without family financial support, with existing student debt, and with limited school support is not easy. I respect you for doing it. Take pride in making the hard choices that involves.
With that attitude, explain to Prof. M that you cannot afford any travel expense, and will only be able to go to the conference if your expenses are fully covered. Check any funding sources he suggested, and ask advisors at your current university if they know of any sources.
If you can't get the full funding you need, tell Prof. M. that you regret you cannot attend the conference. At the worst, you will have to withdraw the paper. However, there are alternatives the conference may permit.
- Remote video presentation
- If anyone from your current university is attending, ask them to present the paper
- Prof M. may be able to get a current student or a collaborator who is attending the conference to present it.
answered yesterday
Patricia ShanahanPatricia Shanahan
26.5k134777
26.5k134777
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
13
13
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
This is good advice, but my gut feeling is that this isn't really about money. The OP seems to have a lot of resentment about their current situation and especially about attending this conference whether or not funding is available.
– Elizabeth Henning
yesterday
7
7
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
+1 Addresses the issue at hand, constructively and at the core of the issue. Some conferences also offer travel support (see also Buffy's response).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
10
10
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
It'd be good if the OP could get their head out of the finances long enough to realize that the opportunity to present a paper in their first PhD year is an opportunity. I really like the suggestion to also discuss funding with the current advisor/department, which may be happy to contribute, or at least have some constructive suggestions about finances in general.
– George M
yesterday
13
13
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
@ElizabethHenning Your gut feeling can lead you quite wrong sometimes.You should not use your gut for guessing other's feelings, they have their own guts to go by.
– mathreadler
19 hours ago
10
10
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
I think the title is part of the problem. "Professor is FORCING me to attend a conference" sounds like a humble brag or a story that should be on choosybeggars. Seems like a great opportunity to me and the professor is offering to pay for 1/2, presumably out of his own pocket. The poster doesn't say what repercussions there would be for failing to attend, doesn't seem to have put any thought into finding funding from other sources, and doesn't seem to want to explain the situation to their professor.
– Jason Goemaat
19 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Late 50s is "frailing age"?
I don't see anybody "forcing" you to do anything. Prof M has given you some reasonable suggestions:
- apply for funding
- an offer to fund 50% of your expenses.
If the latter option doesn't work for you, you are left with either the first option: apply for funding, or other options such as A) Not going, or B) further explaining your financial situation in the hope that the professor might be able to offer more towards expenses. If you are hoping for (B) it would be best for you to at least first attempt to find other funding, as the professor suggested.
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Late 50s is "frailing age"?
I don't see anybody "forcing" you to do anything. Prof M has given you some reasonable suggestions:
- apply for funding
- an offer to fund 50% of your expenses.
If the latter option doesn't work for you, you are left with either the first option: apply for funding, or other options such as A) Not going, or B) further explaining your financial situation in the hope that the professor might be able to offer more towards expenses. If you are hoping for (B) it would be best for you to at least first attempt to find other funding, as the professor suggested.
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Late 50s is "frailing age"?
I don't see anybody "forcing" you to do anything. Prof M has given you some reasonable suggestions:
- apply for funding
- an offer to fund 50% of your expenses.
If the latter option doesn't work for you, you are left with either the first option: apply for funding, or other options such as A) Not going, or B) further explaining your financial situation in the hope that the professor might be able to offer more towards expenses. If you are hoping for (B) it would be best for you to at least first attempt to find other funding, as the professor suggested.
Late 50s is "frailing age"?
I don't see anybody "forcing" you to do anything. Prof M has given you some reasonable suggestions:
- apply for funding
- an offer to fund 50% of your expenses.
If the latter option doesn't work for you, you are left with either the first option: apply for funding, or other options such as A) Not going, or B) further explaining your financial situation in the hope that the professor might be able to offer more towards expenses. If you are hoping for (B) it would be best for you to at least first attempt to find other funding, as the professor suggested.
answered yesterday
Bryan KrauseBryan Krause
13.9k14064
13.9k14064
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
12
12
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
Of course, not attending may have consequences too - you may have to withdraw your paper and look for other ways to get it published. Well, life has trade-offs.
– Nate Eldredge
yesterday
5
5
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Agreed. It sounds like the professor is actively encouraging OP to attend a conference to present the work, which is a worthwhile endeavor, and is giving OP some reasonable options.
– zahbaz
yesterday
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
Late 50s is really really old for a cat however. I bet it would be quite frail indeed.
– A Simple Algorithm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Your professor has made a generous offer if these were personal funds, I think. Your situation is difficult, I also think. It would be good if you could find a way to go, both for now and for your future prospects, both with the (prime age) professor and in meeting people.
So, the issue becomes funding. The first thing you might do is look for funding locally. It is entirely possible that your university has some funds that can be used to support students in such things. The place to start is with the department head, I would guess. See if there is some travel monies available as they certainly have for faculty. If not in the department, then possibly at a higher level in the university.
You may also belong to a professional organization as a student member. Many of these have travel grants available. You might look there.
Another possible option is funding from the conference itself. Some conferences have some funds for student attendees. In some cases the students serve as "volunteers" during the conference, running errands, but can also attend as usual. The conference web site may have something about this, and the organizers may be able to offer suggestions if contacted.
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Your professor has made a generous offer if these were personal funds, I think. Your situation is difficult, I also think. It would be good if you could find a way to go, both for now and for your future prospects, both with the (prime age) professor and in meeting people.
So, the issue becomes funding. The first thing you might do is look for funding locally. It is entirely possible that your university has some funds that can be used to support students in such things. The place to start is with the department head, I would guess. See if there is some travel monies available as they certainly have for faculty. If not in the department, then possibly at a higher level in the university.
You may also belong to a professional organization as a student member. Many of these have travel grants available. You might look there.
Another possible option is funding from the conference itself. Some conferences have some funds for student attendees. In some cases the students serve as "volunteers" during the conference, running errands, but can also attend as usual. The conference web site may have something about this, and the organizers may be able to offer suggestions if contacted.
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Your professor has made a generous offer if these were personal funds, I think. Your situation is difficult, I also think. It would be good if you could find a way to go, both for now and for your future prospects, both with the (prime age) professor and in meeting people.
So, the issue becomes funding. The first thing you might do is look for funding locally. It is entirely possible that your university has some funds that can be used to support students in such things. The place to start is with the department head, I would guess. See if there is some travel monies available as they certainly have for faculty. If not in the department, then possibly at a higher level in the university.
You may also belong to a professional organization as a student member. Many of these have travel grants available. You might look there.
Another possible option is funding from the conference itself. Some conferences have some funds for student attendees. In some cases the students serve as "volunteers" during the conference, running errands, but can also attend as usual. The conference web site may have something about this, and the organizers may be able to offer suggestions if contacted.
Your professor has made a generous offer if these were personal funds, I think. Your situation is difficult, I also think. It would be good if you could find a way to go, both for now and for your future prospects, both with the (prime age) professor and in meeting people.
So, the issue becomes funding. The first thing you might do is look for funding locally. It is entirely possible that your university has some funds that can be used to support students in such things. The place to start is with the department head, I would guess. See if there is some travel monies available as they certainly have for faculty. If not in the department, then possibly at a higher level in the university.
You may also belong to a professional organization as a student member. Many of these have travel grants available. You might look there.
Another possible option is funding from the conference itself. Some conferences have some funds for student attendees. In some cases the students serve as "volunteers" during the conference, running errands, but can also attend as usual. The conference web site may have something about this, and the organizers may be able to offer suggestions if contacted.
edited yesterday
answered yesterday
BuffyBuffy
51k14165254
51k14165254
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
14
14
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
50% funding is not generous at all. In our department (UK) nobody will expect a PhD student to fund their own trip; they can expect to be 100% reimbursed. In Germany, however, considerable self-funding contribution was expected, but there, in many disciplines, PhD students in half-funded positions are expected to work full-time.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
5
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
@CaptainEmacs Your comment doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying "In the UK this would not be considered generous; in Germany it would" at least in your field, and yet you say it is not generous at all? There's also the additional circumstance here that the OP is no longer at the same institution which might put some limits on funding options.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
7
7
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
@BryanKrause Ok, you are right, I should explain: I found that, in the UK (or at least in my institution) it is considered unacceptable that an employee or student should not be reimbursed fully for a business trip, be paid less than full salary for a job. Retroactively, learning this, the German system for PhD students appears really exploitative. (Of course, one could say, Germany does not take tuition fees, but that's a separate issue).
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
5
5
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
@CaptainEmacs The first words of the OP: "I am a first year Ph.D. student. During my masters (which was in a different university)" From several other questions on the topic of conference funding, it seems fairly typical that students often need to find their own funding (incl by applying for funds), especially if they are now at a different institution, though it depends on my field. Certainly in my field I would agree with you, because it is common for students to be funded by professor's grants and for those grants to include travel funds, but this is not the case in all fields.
– Bryan Krause
yesterday
8
8
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
@CaptainEmacs perhaps there's a difference between fields or institutions, or something changed over time, but I did a PhD in Germany quite recently (finished 2 years ago) and never heard of a student travelling to conferences with anything other than total reimbursement.
– Chris H
20 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
Going to a conference as a PhD student is like a business trip if you were a regular employee at a company. And those are of course entirely paid by your employer, and asking an employee to pay for a business trip out of their own pocket would be extremely unusual.
I'm not very familiar with fields where it's customary to publish on conferences instead of journals. But it seems to me that this is also similar to asking someone to pay any journal fees from personal funds, which again is extremely unusual and would typically be paid from research grants. Ensuring the logistics of publication, including how to pay for this is part of the job of a principal investigator, that should not fall on the students.
Your personal financial situation doesn't even matter, it is quite unreasonable to ask you to pay for essentially business expenses from your own personal money. So follow the advice of your professor about applying for money to fund your conference trip. But you can decline to fund it yourself without saying anything about your personal finances.
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
add a comment |
Going to a conference as a PhD student is like a business trip if you were a regular employee at a company. And those are of course entirely paid by your employer, and asking an employee to pay for a business trip out of their own pocket would be extremely unusual.
I'm not very familiar with fields where it's customary to publish on conferences instead of journals. But it seems to me that this is also similar to asking someone to pay any journal fees from personal funds, which again is extremely unusual and would typically be paid from research grants. Ensuring the logistics of publication, including how to pay for this is part of the job of a principal investigator, that should not fall on the students.
Your personal financial situation doesn't even matter, it is quite unreasonable to ask you to pay for essentially business expenses from your own personal money. So follow the advice of your professor about applying for money to fund your conference trip. But you can decline to fund it yourself without saying anything about your personal finances.
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
add a comment |
Going to a conference as a PhD student is like a business trip if you were a regular employee at a company. And those are of course entirely paid by your employer, and asking an employee to pay for a business trip out of their own pocket would be extremely unusual.
I'm not very familiar with fields where it's customary to publish on conferences instead of journals. But it seems to me that this is also similar to asking someone to pay any journal fees from personal funds, which again is extremely unusual and would typically be paid from research grants. Ensuring the logistics of publication, including how to pay for this is part of the job of a principal investigator, that should not fall on the students.
Your personal financial situation doesn't even matter, it is quite unreasonable to ask you to pay for essentially business expenses from your own personal money. So follow the advice of your professor about applying for money to fund your conference trip. But you can decline to fund it yourself without saying anything about your personal finances.
Going to a conference as a PhD student is like a business trip if you were a regular employee at a company. And those are of course entirely paid by your employer, and asking an employee to pay for a business trip out of their own pocket would be extremely unusual.
I'm not very familiar with fields where it's customary to publish on conferences instead of journals. But it seems to me that this is also similar to asking someone to pay any journal fees from personal funds, which again is extremely unusual and would typically be paid from research grants. Ensuring the logistics of publication, including how to pay for this is part of the job of a principal investigator, that should not fall on the students.
Your personal financial situation doesn't even matter, it is quite unreasonable to ask you to pay for essentially business expenses from your own personal money. So follow the advice of your professor about applying for money to fund your conference trip. But you can decline to fund it yourself without saying anything about your personal finances.
answered 18 hours ago
Mad ScientistMad Scientist
476410
476410
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
add a comment |
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
4
4
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
I would say that the difference to the business trip is that the student's own reputation, not that of the university, can significantly benefit from the conference presentation. Contrary to an employee on a business trip, the student is working mostly for his own future career, not that of his employer (university)
– Marie. P.
15 hours ago
1
1
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. A student is always representing the academic group as well as themselves on a conference. There are usually multiple names on a poster, among them the supervisor (I'm assuming a field like biology/chemistry here). If the student decides on their own that they want to visit a conference for their own benefit, this is something entirely different than when the supervisor decides that the student should visit a specific conference.
– Mad Scientist
15 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
@Marie.P. That's no different from a software developer getting sent to attend a conference by their employer, for which the benefit is largely to the attendee through networking and learning new things, and the employer almost always pays for the entire thing, airfare and hotel and conference.
– shoover
10 hours ago
add a comment |
The professor is expecting you to make a serious good-faith effort to obtain funding. Based on your question, it sounds like you have not made any applications or enquiries about funding for conference attendance, but are assuming that there is no funding available (sadly, this is often true, but you are expected to try before giving up).
So, you should do a bit of research into where you might be able to get funding (as well as sources within your institution, you should check whether any learned societies or trusts have professional development funds for graduate students and/or for your area of research), and submit several applications to places where you may be eligible (in your application, indicate that you already have 50% funded -- this is generally considered a good thing by funders). By all means, ask your professor for pointers or leads as to where you might investigate.
Funding applications are a tedious and demoralising chore, but you need to get used to doing them. It is perfectly reasonable for your professor to expect you to make such applications. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to ask your professor to check your applications before you submit them (he/she may be able to offer valuable advice as to how to "sell" your funding application better).
If, after having made several funding applications, you still do not have enough funding to cover the cost, then your professor should be understanding, and should not expect you to pay for it out of your own pocket.
New contributor
add a comment |
The professor is expecting you to make a serious good-faith effort to obtain funding. Based on your question, it sounds like you have not made any applications or enquiries about funding for conference attendance, but are assuming that there is no funding available (sadly, this is often true, but you are expected to try before giving up).
So, you should do a bit of research into where you might be able to get funding (as well as sources within your institution, you should check whether any learned societies or trusts have professional development funds for graduate students and/or for your area of research), and submit several applications to places where you may be eligible (in your application, indicate that you already have 50% funded -- this is generally considered a good thing by funders). By all means, ask your professor for pointers or leads as to where you might investigate.
Funding applications are a tedious and demoralising chore, but you need to get used to doing them. It is perfectly reasonable for your professor to expect you to make such applications. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to ask your professor to check your applications before you submit them (he/she may be able to offer valuable advice as to how to "sell" your funding application better).
If, after having made several funding applications, you still do not have enough funding to cover the cost, then your professor should be understanding, and should not expect you to pay for it out of your own pocket.
New contributor
add a comment |
The professor is expecting you to make a serious good-faith effort to obtain funding. Based on your question, it sounds like you have not made any applications or enquiries about funding for conference attendance, but are assuming that there is no funding available (sadly, this is often true, but you are expected to try before giving up).
So, you should do a bit of research into where you might be able to get funding (as well as sources within your institution, you should check whether any learned societies or trusts have professional development funds for graduate students and/or for your area of research), and submit several applications to places where you may be eligible (in your application, indicate that you already have 50% funded -- this is generally considered a good thing by funders). By all means, ask your professor for pointers or leads as to where you might investigate.
Funding applications are a tedious and demoralising chore, but you need to get used to doing them. It is perfectly reasonable for your professor to expect you to make such applications. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to ask your professor to check your applications before you submit them (he/she may be able to offer valuable advice as to how to "sell" your funding application better).
If, after having made several funding applications, you still do not have enough funding to cover the cost, then your professor should be understanding, and should not expect you to pay for it out of your own pocket.
New contributor
The professor is expecting you to make a serious good-faith effort to obtain funding. Based on your question, it sounds like you have not made any applications or enquiries about funding for conference attendance, but are assuming that there is no funding available (sadly, this is often true, but you are expected to try before giving up).
So, you should do a bit of research into where you might be able to get funding (as well as sources within your institution, you should check whether any learned societies or trusts have professional development funds for graduate students and/or for your area of research), and submit several applications to places where you may be eligible (in your application, indicate that you already have 50% funded -- this is generally considered a good thing by funders). By all means, ask your professor for pointers or leads as to where you might investigate.
Funding applications are a tedious and demoralising chore, but you need to get used to doing them. It is perfectly reasonable for your professor to expect you to make such applications. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to ask your professor to check your applications before you submit them (he/she may be able to offer valuable advice as to how to "sell" your funding application better).
If, after having made several funding applications, you still do not have enough funding to cover the cost, then your professor should be understanding, and should not expect you to pay for it out of your own pocket.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 12 hours ago
anonanon
611
611
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
I am making my comment an answer.
I think you should suggest that Prof. M attends the conference and presents the paper* for a number of reasons:
- Prof. M is the senior author in the work;
- probably earns a lot more than you; and
- will likely have access to extra grant funds to fund the trip.
You can phrase it along these lines:
Dear Prof. M,
Whilst I would welcome presenting the work at the conference, sadly my
financial doesn't allow to spend such an amount to travel. I sit
possible for you to attend the conference and present the work?
Adding to that, and because I have been in this situation, I don't it is reasonable to insist that a student attend conference out of his/her pocket. It can certainly be suggested but not insisted upon. The financial situation of most students is precarious at best, and in my experience there is very little benefit going to self-funded conferences during the first PhD year, in particular for a project that, as far as you are concerned is dead. The only person that can gain from obtaining feedback is your former supervisor.
*Unless this is one of rare instances that a conference requests the first author to present the work.
add a comment |
I am making my comment an answer.
I think you should suggest that Prof. M attends the conference and presents the paper* for a number of reasons:
- Prof. M is the senior author in the work;
- probably earns a lot more than you; and
- will likely have access to extra grant funds to fund the trip.
You can phrase it along these lines:
Dear Prof. M,
Whilst I would welcome presenting the work at the conference, sadly my
financial doesn't allow to spend such an amount to travel. I sit
possible for you to attend the conference and present the work?
Adding to that, and because I have been in this situation, I don't it is reasonable to insist that a student attend conference out of his/her pocket. It can certainly be suggested but not insisted upon. The financial situation of most students is precarious at best, and in my experience there is very little benefit going to self-funded conferences during the first PhD year, in particular for a project that, as far as you are concerned is dead. The only person that can gain from obtaining feedback is your former supervisor.
*Unless this is one of rare instances that a conference requests the first author to present the work.
add a comment |
I am making my comment an answer.
I think you should suggest that Prof. M attends the conference and presents the paper* for a number of reasons:
- Prof. M is the senior author in the work;
- probably earns a lot more than you; and
- will likely have access to extra grant funds to fund the trip.
You can phrase it along these lines:
Dear Prof. M,
Whilst I would welcome presenting the work at the conference, sadly my
financial doesn't allow to spend such an amount to travel. I sit
possible for you to attend the conference and present the work?
Adding to that, and because I have been in this situation, I don't it is reasonable to insist that a student attend conference out of his/her pocket. It can certainly be suggested but not insisted upon. The financial situation of most students is precarious at best, and in my experience there is very little benefit going to self-funded conferences during the first PhD year, in particular for a project that, as far as you are concerned is dead. The only person that can gain from obtaining feedback is your former supervisor.
*Unless this is one of rare instances that a conference requests the first author to present the work.
I am making my comment an answer.
I think you should suggest that Prof. M attends the conference and presents the paper* for a number of reasons:
- Prof. M is the senior author in the work;
- probably earns a lot more than you; and
- will likely have access to extra grant funds to fund the trip.
You can phrase it along these lines:
Dear Prof. M,
Whilst I would welcome presenting the work at the conference, sadly my
financial doesn't allow to spend such an amount to travel. I sit
possible for you to attend the conference and present the work?
Adding to that, and because I have been in this situation, I don't it is reasonable to insist that a student attend conference out of his/her pocket. It can certainly be suggested but not insisted upon. The financial situation of most students is precarious at best, and in my experience there is very little benefit going to self-funded conferences during the first PhD year, in particular for a project that, as far as you are concerned is dead. The only person that can gain from obtaining feedback is your former supervisor.
*Unless this is one of rare instances that a conference requests the first author to present the work.
answered 12 hours ago
fridaymeetssundayfridaymeetssunday
190110
190110
add a comment |
add a comment |
- Is he your employer? Then he will pay the expenses for something which is mandatory for this employment.
- Is he not your employer? Then he can't "force" you.
I don't see the problem.
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
add a comment |
- Is he your employer? Then he will pay the expenses for something which is mandatory for this employment.
- Is he not your employer? Then he can't "force" you.
I don't see the problem.
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
add a comment |
- Is he your employer? Then he will pay the expenses for something which is mandatory for this employment.
- Is he not your employer? Then he can't "force" you.
I don't see the problem.
- Is he your employer? Then he will pay the expenses for something which is mandatory for this employment.
- Is he not your employer? Then he can't "force" you.
I don't see the problem.
answered 18 hours ago
mathreadlermathreadler
1,061510
1,061510
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
add a comment |
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
6
6
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
Wouldn't it be great if reality was as fair and simple as this?
– gerrit
17 hours ago
3
3
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
@gerrit : Why wouldn't it be? His MSc supervisor is not his PhD advisor. His duties have now shifted to his new situation.
– mathreadler
17 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
If someone wants to change that they should go directly to him and not be so dumb as to try to throw money all around him instead. They sure aren't gonna get their money's worth if they keep that up and he understands it most of that time.
– mathreadler
11 hours ago
add a comment |
At the European universities that I have worked, PhD students are seen as employees and thus receive a salary and their conference visits are paid for by the university. Often research projects have special budget for this. Master students with good and useful results will sometimes also be allowed to visit a conference at the expense of the department. Requiring you to (partially) pay to represent the university at a conference is cheapskating from your professor and degrading for you. Don't do it.
New contributor
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
add a comment |
At the European universities that I have worked, PhD students are seen as employees and thus receive a salary and their conference visits are paid for by the university. Often research projects have special budget for this. Master students with good and useful results will sometimes also be allowed to visit a conference at the expense of the department. Requiring you to (partially) pay to represent the university at a conference is cheapskating from your professor and degrading for you. Don't do it.
New contributor
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
add a comment |
At the European universities that I have worked, PhD students are seen as employees and thus receive a salary and their conference visits are paid for by the university. Often research projects have special budget for this. Master students with good and useful results will sometimes also be allowed to visit a conference at the expense of the department. Requiring you to (partially) pay to represent the university at a conference is cheapskating from your professor and degrading for you. Don't do it.
New contributor
At the European universities that I have worked, PhD students are seen as employees and thus receive a salary and their conference visits are paid for by the university. Often research projects have special budget for this. Master students with good and useful results will sometimes also be allowed to visit a conference at the expense of the department. Requiring you to (partially) pay to represent the university at a conference is cheapskating from your professor and degrading for you. Don't do it.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 11 hours ago
PetePete
91
91
New contributor
New contributor
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
add a comment |
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
I suspect OP is in the US and the norms are a bit different there.
– Alexey B.
11 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
You seem to have overlooked the "different university" part. The OP is currently not enrolled or employed by the university of the professor. The old university can decide to not pay the expenses of somebody who is not their student. The new university will usually only pay if the current supervisor signs off on the necessity and pays it out of his group's budget - but if the current supervisor is not on the authorship list, and if the conference is outside of his niche community (which is common, most people don't do PhD in the same niche as their Msc), he has little incentive to do so.
– rumtscho
10 hours ago
add a comment |
protected by Alexandros 10 hours ago
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9
I find it strange that you are facing this issue now. You knew the paper was submitted to a conference, and the conference trips aren't free. So you had to negotiate beforehand who's going to travel, and how to cover costs. In a way, you are in the same boat with your supervisor, and "he pays, I go" is not necessarily the default option always available.
– rg_software
yesterday
68
So apply to funding agencies, or else don't go. You seem bothered by the fact that you are forced to be clear about the fact that you can't afford it. There's no shame in being a starving student.
– A Simple Algorithm
yesterday
32
Re the title: How is Prof. M "forcing" you to go to the conference?
– PersonX
yesterday
9
@rg_software at least in my field if there is a submission than is implicit the group sustains the cost. If the research is highly individual, it could be history law or something not hardware, then the professor should pay, via funds or his/her pocket. It seems absurd to expect that a student should (or even can ) manage that.
– Alchimista
18 hours ago
8
There's no question in your post. What is it that you want to ask us?
– David Richerby
11 hours ago