Is exact Kanji stroke length important? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar...

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Is exact Kanji stroke length important?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Is there an “official” font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?Why is stroke order important?why do some kanji have multiple stroke counts?What do you call the hooked tip of a kanji stroke?Kanji stroke type (not stroke order)Usage of Heisig radical “big”Stroke recognition in this kanji?Stroke order of kana (not kanji)Variations in the “same” kanji, how do you know which one to use?Are hiragana letters written with their small nuances?For the Kanji 校 is the fifth stroke connected to the sixth stroke?












21















Context:



I am currently on a quest to learn how to hand write the 2000 most commonly used Kanji. This requires lots of memorization, so efficiency is important.



I have come across Kanji that have strokes with little "extra tails", created from a slightly extra-long stroke. I found that they are often referred to as はね. Or in English, they can be called "jumps". For example:



enter image description here



When splitting this kanji into three separate parts:




  • the left part has two jumps on the bottom, with the left tail being slightly longer

  • the upper right part has no jumps

  • the lower right part has two jumps on the bottom, of equal length.


Question:



How important are the jumps?



When handwriting Kanji, does it matter if these jumps are of the correct length? Would the Kanji still be understandable without correct jumps? Would natives find it annoying, for example, if I didn't include the jumps at all?



I am asking because the less little things I have to memorize, the faster I can learn the Kanji.










share|improve this question

























  • I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

    – Robin Nemeth
    Mar 28 at 8:23


















21















Context:



I am currently on a quest to learn how to hand write the 2000 most commonly used Kanji. This requires lots of memorization, so efficiency is important.



I have come across Kanji that have strokes with little "extra tails", created from a slightly extra-long stroke. I found that they are often referred to as はね. Or in English, they can be called "jumps". For example:



enter image description here



When splitting this kanji into three separate parts:




  • the left part has two jumps on the bottom, with the left tail being slightly longer

  • the upper right part has no jumps

  • the lower right part has two jumps on the bottom, of equal length.


Question:



How important are the jumps?



When handwriting Kanji, does it matter if these jumps are of the correct length? Would the Kanji still be understandable without correct jumps? Would natives find it annoying, for example, if I didn't include the jumps at all?



I am asking because the less little things I have to memorize, the faster I can learn the Kanji.










share|improve this question

























  • I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

    – Robin Nemeth
    Mar 28 at 8:23
















21












21








21


6






Context:



I am currently on a quest to learn how to hand write the 2000 most commonly used Kanji. This requires lots of memorization, so efficiency is important.



I have come across Kanji that have strokes with little "extra tails", created from a slightly extra-long stroke. I found that they are often referred to as はね. Or in English, they can be called "jumps". For example:



enter image description here



When splitting this kanji into three separate parts:




  • the left part has two jumps on the bottom, with the left tail being slightly longer

  • the upper right part has no jumps

  • the lower right part has two jumps on the bottom, of equal length.


Question:



How important are the jumps?



When handwriting Kanji, does it matter if these jumps are of the correct length? Would the Kanji still be understandable without correct jumps? Would natives find it annoying, for example, if I didn't include the jumps at all?



I am asking because the less little things I have to memorize, the faster I can learn the Kanji.










share|improve this question
















Context:



I am currently on a quest to learn how to hand write the 2000 most commonly used Kanji. This requires lots of memorization, so efficiency is important.



I have come across Kanji that have strokes with little "extra tails", created from a slightly extra-long stroke. I found that they are often referred to as はね. Or in English, they can be called "jumps". For example:



enter image description here



When splitting this kanji into three separate parts:




  • the left part has two jumps on the bottom, with the left tail being slightly longer

  • the upper right part has no jumps

  • the lower right part has two jumps on the bottom, of equal length.


Question:



How important are the jumps?



When handwriting Kanji, does it matter if these jumps are of the correct length? Would the Kanji still be understandable without correct jumps? Would natives find it annoying, for example, if I didn't include the jumps at all?



I am asking because the less little things I have to memorize, the faster I can learn the Kanji.







kanji handwriting






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 25 at 22:22







Blake Allen

















asked Mar 25 at 18:35









Blake AllenBlake Allen

11117




11117













  • I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

    – Robin Nemeth
    Mar 28 at 8:23





















  • I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

    – Robin Nemeth
    Mar 28 at 8:23



















I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

– Robin Nemeth
Mar 28 at 8:23







I got here through "Hot network questions". I don't have any idea how Kanji works, but I now that I've read the question and all the answers I am just curious how would you translate this particular set of strokes into English?

– Robin Nemeth
Mar 28 at 8:23












6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















21















These "jumps" that you brought up are not part of the kanji, they are part of the typeface.




(More specifically, they may be treated like serifs - or little decorations at the edge of certain lines)
(see drooze's and Sweeper's answers)



When you are learning kanji, you should definitely not be copying or referencing printed characters. You should learn from hand-written characters. The basics of how to write kanji are not taught or learned from printed or typeface forms.



The best online reference I know of for hand-written Japanese characters is https://kakijun.jp/




  • 唱 → https://kakijun.jp/page/1118200.html






share|improve this answer

































    20














    Notice how in some fonts, the letter "A" has little things that stick out, too:



    enter image description here



    But you wouldn't write those little tails in handwriting, would you?



    Same thing with 唱. I don't think I've met anyone who writes them with the "jumps". This is how I'd write 唱:



    enter image description here






    share|improve this answer



















    • 4





      Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

      – Blake Allen
      Mar 25 at 22:16








    • 4





      @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

      – Sweeper
      Mar 25 at 22:37






    • 7





      The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

      – sazarando
      Mar 26 at 20:19



















    15














    Not to take away from the general idea of the other answers, but those protrusions on the bottom end of「唱」are not serifs.




    enter image description here



    Noto sans CJK, a sans-serif font - sans-serif means without serifs.



    These protrusions have been present since one-pixel wide bitmap fonts - I presume their purpose is to enhance legibility.



    enter image description here




    The font displayed in the question is classed as an East Asian Gothic typeface. In general, Ming typeface and its derivatives like Gothic typeface are unsuitable for handwriting imitation. Please see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji? and make use of handwriting previews if you want to copy a style resembling handwriting.






    share|improve this answer





















    • 1





      The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

      – sazarando
      Mar 26 at 20:14






    • 1





      @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

      – droooze
      Mar 27 at 0:31











    • That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

      – sazarando
      Mar 27 at 0:48











    • (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

      – sazarando
      Mar 27 at 0:50






    • 2





      @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

      – droooze
      Mar 27 at 0:52



















    10














    Since nobody has mentioned how you should actually write 唱, let me add a picture from a "textbook font" (教科書体) (see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?)



    enter image description here



    You can follow the shape, but when writing with a pen, the "serifs" or "jumps" are sometimes less visible and usually the middle "bar" in 日 does not touch the right vertical stroke. (To see what I mean in other characters, see for example this site.)



    I couldn't find a picture of 唱, so here is what I mean:



    enter image description here



    (Sorry for the subpar handwriting and the cheap pen.)






    share|improve this answer































      7














      Please keep in mind that kanji are traditionally practiced using a brush, rather than a pen or pencil. The tails are a result of correct brush usage, as each stroke may have it's open predefined nuance or flair.



      See this article on calligraphy, or shodo:
      https://www.japanvisitor.com/japanese-culture/language/japanese-shodo



      It is very useful to be familiar with these basics, but it is unnecessarily time consuming to attempt to have perfect calligraphy form all the time. The simplified, cursive examples provided by others in this thread exemplify how the calligraphy techniques, when sped up, act as a type of shorthand used to save time.



      I recommend jisho.org for their hand written stroke order animations:



      https://jisho.org/search/家%20%23kanji






      share|improve this answer































        2














        This has more to do with strokes and stroke order. Some fonts will show these, others not. Some will even show such 'tails' in the middle of a stroke.



        Pay attention only if it helps you to get the kanji (especially strokes and stroke order) right.






        share|improve this answer
























        • ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

          – Blake Allen
          Mar 25 at 18:51











        • like they're basically stylistic?

          – Blake Allen
          Mar 25 at 19:26












        Your Answer








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        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes








        6 Answers
        6






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        21















        These "jumps" that you brought up are not part of the kanji, they are part of the typeface.




        (More specifically, they may be treated like serifs - or little decorations at the edge of certain lines)
        (see drooze's and Sweeper's answers)



        When you are learning kanji, you should definitely not be copying or referencing printed characters. You should learn from hand-written characters. The basics of how to write kanji are not taught or learned from printed or typeface forms.



        The best online reference I know of for hand-written Japanese characters is https://kakijun.jp/




        • 唱 → https://kakijun.jp/page/1118200.html






        share|improve this answer






























          21















          These "jumps" that you brought up are not part of the kanji, they are part of the typeface.




          (More specifically, they may be treated like serifs - or little decorations at the edge of certain lines)
          (see drooze's and Sweeper's answers)



          When you are learning kanji, you should definitely not be copying or referencing printed characters. You should learn from hand-written characters. The basics of how to write kanji are not taught or learned from printed or typeface forms.



          The best online reference I know of for hand-written Japanese characters is https://kakijun.jp/




          • 唱 → https://kakijun.jp/page/1118200.html






          share|improve this answer




























            21












            21








            21








            These "jumps" that you brought up are not part of the kanji, they are part of the typeface.




            (More specifically, they may be treated like serifs - or little decorations at the edge of certain lines)
            (see drooze's and Sweeper's answers)



            When you are learning kanji, you should definitely not be copying or referencing printed characters. You should learn from hand-written characters. The basics of how to write kanji are not taught or learned from printed or typeface forms.



            The best online reference I know of for hand-written Japanese characters is https://kakijun.jp/




            • 唱 → https://kakijun.jp/page/1118200.html






            share|improve this answer
















            These "jumps" that you brought up are not part of the kanji, they are part of the typeface.




            (More specifically, they may be treated like serifs - or little decorations at the edge of certain lines)
            (see drooze's and Sweeper's answers)



            When you are learning kanji, you should definitely not be copying or referencing printed characters. You should learn from hand-written characters. The basics of how to write kanji are not taught or learned from printed or typeface forms.



            The best online reference I know of for hand-written Japanese characters is https://kakijun.jp/




            • 唱 → https://kakijun.jp/page/1118200.html







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Mar 27 at 1:09

























            answered Mar 25 at 20:09









            sazarandosazarando

            6,723822




            6,723822























                20














                Notice how in some fonts, the letter "A" has little things that stick out, too:



                enter image description here



                But you wouldn't write those little tails in handwriting, would you?



                Same thing with 唱. I don't think I've met anyone who writes them with the "jumps". This is how I'd write 唱:



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer



















                • 4





                  Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                  – Blake Allen
                  Mar 25 at 22:16








                • 4





                  @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                  – Sweeper
                  Mar 25 at 22:37






                • 7





                  The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:19
















                20














                Notice how in some fonts, the letter "A" has little things that stick out, too:



                enter image description here



                But you wouldn't write those little tails in handwriting, would you?



                Same thing with 唱. I don't think I've met anyone who writes them with the "jumps". This is how I'd write 唱:



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer



















                • 4





                  Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                  – Blake Allen
                  Mar 25 at 22:16








                • 4





                  @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                  – Sweeper
                  Mar 25 at 22:37






                • 7





                  The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:19














                20












                20








                20







                Notice how in some fonts, the letter "A" has little things that stick out, too:



                enter image description here



                But you wouldn't write those little tails in handwriting, would you?



                Same thing with 唱. I don't think I've met anyone who writes them with the "jumps". This is how I'd write 唱:



                enter image description here






                share|improve this answer













                Notice how in some fonts, the letter "A" has little things that stick out, too:



                enter image description here



                But you wouldn't write those little tails in handwriting, would you?



                Same thing with 唱. I don't think I've met anyone who writes them with the "jumps". This is how I'd write 唱:



                enter image description here







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered Mar 25 at 20:08









                SweeperSweeper

                1,597525




                1,597525








                • 4





                  Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                  – Blake Allen
                  Mar 25 at 22:16








                • 4





                  @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                  – Sweeper
                  Mar 25 at 22:37






                • 7





                  The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:19














                • 4





                  Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                  – Blake Allen
                  Mar 25 at 22:16








                • 4





                  @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                  – Sweeper
                  Mar 25 at 22:37






                • 7





                  The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:19








                4




                4





                Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                – Blake Allen
                Mar 25 at 22:16







                Woah, I haven't seen Kanji written like that before. I'm used to these sort of strokes. Is your style like a sort of cursive?

                – Blake Allen
                Mar 25 at 22:16






                4




                4





                @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                – Sweeper
                Mar 25 at 22:37





                @BlakeAllen that’s just what happens when you write stuff naturally. Naturally, people don’t spend 5 seconds on each character.

                – Sweeper
                Mar 25 at 22:37




                7




                7





                The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                – sazarando
                Mar 26 at 20:19





                The style that Sweeper has written this would be classified as 行書{ぎょうしょ}, or "semi-cursive". This style is also taught and learned, although students generally pick it up as they watch others write.

                – sazarando
                Mar 26 at 20:19











                15














                Not to take away from the general idea of the other answers, but those protrusions on the bottom end of「唱」are not serifs.




                enter image description here



                Noto sans CJK, a sans-serif font - sans-serif means without serifs.



                These protrusions have been present since one-pixel wide bitmap fonts - I presume their purpose is to enhance legibility.



                enter image description here




                The font displayed in the question is classed as an East Asian Gothic typeface. In general, Ming typeface and its derivatives like Gothic typeface are unsuitable for handwriting imitation. Please see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji? and make use of handwriting previews if you want to copy a style resembling handwriting.






                share|improve this answer





















                • 1





                  The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:14






                • 1





                  @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:31











                • That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:48











                • (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:50






                • 2





                  @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:52
















                15














                Not to take away from the general idea of the other answers, but those protrusions on the bottom end of「唱」are not serifs.




                enter image description here



                Noto sans CJK, a sans-serif font - sans-serif means without serifs.



                These protrusions have been present since one-pixel wide bitmap fonts - I presume their purpose is to enhance legibility.



                enter image description here




                The font displayed in the question is classed as an East Asian Gothic typeface. In general, Ming typeface and its derivatives like Gothic typeface are unsuitable for handwriting imitation. Please see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji? and make use of handwriting previews if you want to copy a style resembling handwriting.






                share|improve this answer





















                • 1





                  The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:14






                • 1





                  @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:31











                • That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:48











                • (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:50






                • 2





                  @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:52














                15












                15








                15







                Not to take away from the general idea of the other answers, but those protrusions on the bottom end of「唱」are not serifs.




                enter image description here



                Noto sans CJK, a sans-serif font - sans-serif means without serifs.



                These protrusions have been present since one-pixel wide bitmap fonts - I presume their purpose is to enhance legibility.



                enter image description here




                The font displayed in the question is classed as an East Asian Gothic typeface. In general, Ming typeface and its derivatives like Gothic typeface are unsuitable for handwriting imitation. Please see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji? and make use of handwriting previews if you want to copy a style resembling handwriting.






                share|improve this answer















                Not to take away from the general idea of the other answers, but those protrusions on the bottom end of「唱」are not serifs.




                enter image description here



                Noto sans CJK, a sans-serif font - sans-serif means without serifs.



                These protrusions have been present since one-pixel wide bitmap fonts - I presume their purpose is to enhance legibility.



                enter image description here




                The font displayed in the question is classed as an East Asian Gothic typeface. In general, Ming typeface and its derivatives like Gothic typeface are unsuitable for handwriting imitation. Please see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji? and make use of handwriting previews if you want to copy a style resembling handwriting.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Mar 26 at 11:44

























                answered Mar 26 at 4:52









                drooozedroooze

                6,10412135




                6,10412135








                • 1





                  The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:14






                • 1





                  @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:31











                • That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:48











                • (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:50






                • 2





                  @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:52














                • 1





                  The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 26 at 20:14






                • 1





                  @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:31











                • That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:48











                • (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                  – sazarando
                  Mar 27 at 0:50






                • 2





                  @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                  – droooze
                  Mar 27 at 0:52








                1




                1





                The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                – sazarando
                Mar 26 at 20:14





                The definition of serif is "a slight projection finishing off a stroke of a letter". I'm interested to know, other than the name of this font, can you find any other information that would exclude these protrusions from the definition of a serif?

                – sazarando
                Mar 26 at 20:14




                1




                1





                @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                – droooze
                Mar 27 at 0:31





                @sazarando see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)#Characteristics - Triangles at the end of single horizontal strokes, called uroko (鱗, literally “fish scales”) in Japanese, comparable to serifs. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-serif#/media/File:Ming_serif.svg where the "serif" analogy is highlighted in red on the left column; take note of the character 黃, where the bottom protrusions in the first two columns aren't highlighted (i.e. not counted as "serifs"), although the sans-serif column doesn't have those protrusions.

                – droooze
                Mar 27 at 0:31













                That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                – sazarando
                Mar 27 at 0:48





                That is interesting. I can understand that a distinction could be drawn between 鱗 and "protrusions" - but wouldn't they both a type of "projection finishing off a stroke"? I think it may be significant that these protrusions only ever occur at what is the end of a stroke. Why wouldn't that type of embellishment be counted as a serif as well?

                – sazarando
                Mar 27 at 0:48













                (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                – sazarando
                Mar 27 at 0:50





                (side note) Regardless of why these protrusions would or would not be considered serifs, I take your point that they do not seem to be included in what is commonly referred to as serifs by the professionals making CJK typefaces.

                – sazarando
                Mar 27 at 0:50




                2




                2





                @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                – droooze
                Mar 27 at 0:52





                @sazarando I don't know the answer :) I think this could be a question on graphicdesign SE, if I haven't managed to find the answer elsewhere.

                – droooze
                Mar 27 at 0:52











                10














                Since nobody has mentioned how you should actually write 唱, let me add a picture from a "textbook font" (教科書体) (see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?)



                enter image description here



                You can follow the shape, but when writing with a pen, the "serifs" or "jumps" are sometimes less visible and usually the middle "bar" in 日 does not touch the right vertical stroke. (To see what I mean in other characters, see for example this site.)



                I couldn't find a picture of 唱, so here is what I mean:



                enter image description here



                (Sorry for the subpar handwriting and the cheap pen.)






                share|improve this answer




























                  10














                  Since nobody has mentioned how you should actually write 唱, let me add a picture from a "textbook font" (教科書体) (see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?)



                  enter image description here



                  You can follow the shape, but when writing with a pen, the "serifs" or "jumps" are sometimes less visible and usually the middle "bar" in 日 does not touch the right vertical stroke. (To see what I mean in other characters, see for example this site.)



                  I couldn't find a picture of 唱, so here is what I mean:



                  enter image description here



                  (Sorry for the subpar handwriting and the cheap pen.)






                  share|improve this answer


























                    10












                    10








                    10







                    Since nobody has mentioned how you should actually write 唱, let me add a picture from a "textbook font" (教科書体) (see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?)



                    enter image description here



                    You can follow the shape, but when writing with a pen, the "serifs" or "jumps" are sometimes less visible and usually the middle "bar" in 日 does not touch the right vertical stroke. (To see what I mean in other characters, see for example this site.)



                    I couldn't find a picture of 唱, so here is what I mean:



                    enter image description here



                    (Sorry for the subpar handwriting and the cheap pen.)






                    share|improve this answer













                    Since nobody has mentioned how you should actually write 唱, let me add a picture from a "textbook font" (教科書体) (see Is there an "official" font or other writing standard that should be used when teaching kanji?)



                    enter image description here



                    You can follow the shape, but when writing with a pen, the "serifs" or "jumps" are sometimes less visible and usually the middle "bar" in 日 does not touch the right vertical stroke. (To see what I mean in other characters, see for example this site.)



                    I couldn't find a picture of 唱, so here is what I mean:



                    enter image description here



                    (Sorry for the subpar handwriting and the cheap pen.)







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Mar 26 at 11:18









                    EarthliŋEarthliŋ

                    42.5k893159




                    42.5k893159























                        7














                        Please keep in mind that kanji are traditionally practiced using a brush, rather than a pen or pencil. The tails are a result of correct brush usage, as each stroke may have it's open predefined nuance or flair.



                        See this article on calligraphy, or shodo:
                        https://www.japanvisitor.com/japanese-culture/language/japanese-shodo



                        It is very useful to be familiar with these basics, but it is unnecessarily time consuming to attempt to have perfect calligraphy form all the time. The simplified, cursive examples provided by others in this thread exemplify how the calligraphy techniques, when sped up, act as a type of shorthand used to save time.



                        I recommend jisho.org for their hand written stroke order animations:



                        https://jisho.org/search/家%20%23kanji






                        share|improve this answer




























                          7














                          Please keep in mind that kanji are traditionally practiced using a brush, rather than a pen or pencil. The tails are a result of correct brush usage, as each stroke may have it's open predefined nuance or flair.



                          See this article on calligraphy, or shodo:
                          https://www.japanvisitor.com/japanese-culture/language/japanese-shodo



                          It is very useful to be familiar with these basics, but it is unnecessarily time consuming to attempt to have perfect calligraphy form all the time. The simplified, cursive examples provided by others in this thread exemplify how the calligraphy techniques, when sped up, act as a type of shorthand used to save time.



                          I recommend jisho.org for their hand written stroke order animations:



                          https://jisho.org/search/家%20%23kanji






                          share|improve this answer


























                            7












                            7








                            7







                            Please keep in mind that kanji are traditionally practiced using a brush, rather than a pen or pencil. The tails are a result of correct brush usage, as each stroke may have it's open predefined nuance or flair.



                            See this article on calligraphy, or shodo:
                            https://www.japanvisitor.com/japanese-culture/language/japanese-shodo



                            It is very useful to be familiar with these basics, but it is unnecessarily time consuming to attempt to have perfect calligraphy form all the time. The simplified, cursive examples provided by others in this thread exemplify how the calligraphy techniques, when sped up, act as a type of shorthand used to save time.



                            I recommend jisho.org for their hand written stroke order animations:



                            https://jisho.org/search/家%20%23kanji






                            share|improve this answer













                            Please keep in mind that kanji are traditionally practiced using a brush, rather than a pen or pencil. The tails are a result of correct brush usage, as each stroke may have it's open predefined nuance or flair.



                            See this article on calligraphy, or shodo:
                            https://www.japanvisitor.com/japanese-culture/language/japanese-shodo



                            It is very useful to be familiar with these basics, but it is unnecessarily time consuming to attempt to have perfect calligraphy form all the time. The simplified, cursive examples provided by others in this thread exemplify how the calligraphy techniques, when sped up, act as a type of shorthand used to save time.



                            I recommend jisho.org for their hand written stroke order animations:



                            https://jisho.org/search/家%20%23kanji







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Mar 26 at 12:35









                            JunreikusuJunreikusu

                            711




                            711























                                2














                                This has more to do with strokes and stroke order. Some fonts will show these, others not. Some will even show such 'tails' in the middle of a stroke.



                                Pay attention only if it helps you to get the kanji (especially strokes and stroke order) right.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 18:51











                                • like they're basically stylistic?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 19:26
















                                2














                                This has more to do with strokes and stroke order. Some fonts will show these, others not. Some will even show such 'tails' in the middle of a stroke.



                                Pay attention only if it helps you to get the kanji (especially strokes and stroke order) right.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 18:51











                                • like they're basically stylistic?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 19:26














                                2












                                2








                                2







                                This has more to do with strokes and stroke order. Some fonts will show these, others not. Some will even show such 'tails' in the middle of a stroke.



                                Pay attention only if it helps you to get the kanji (especially strokes and stroke order) right.






                                share|improve this answer













                                This has more to do with strokes and stroke order. Some fonts will show these, others not. Some will even show such 'tails' in the middle of a stroke.



                                Pay attention only if it helps you to get the kanji (especially strokes and stroke order) right.







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Mar 25 at 18:46









                                Mathieu BouvilleMathieu Bouville

                                1,159117




                                1,159117













                                • ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 18:51











                                • like they're basically stylistic?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 19:26



















                                • ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 18:51











                                • like they're basically stylistic?

                                  – Blake Allen
                                  Mar 25 at 19:26

















                                ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                – Blake Allen
                                Mar 25 at 18:51





                                ok, so from what I understand you are saying that the tails have no significance in relation to the meaning of the Kanji, and are instead included to show stroke order?

                                – Blake Allen
                                Mar 25 at 18:51













                                like they're basically stylistic?

                                – Blake Allen
                                Mar 25 at 19:26





                                like they're basically stylistic?

                                – Blake Allen
                                Mar 25 at 19:26


















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