Is this Spell Mimic feat balanced?What is a “spellcaster” for the purpose of magic item attunement?Would changing the Artificer spell list affect balance?Can a multiclass spellcaster use spell slots of a level higher than the spells he could learn through a class to cast a spell learned through a feat?How unbalanced would a feat that allowed access to other spell lists be?How balanced are these feats that grant a specific 3rd-level spell to spellcasters?How should this homebrew class be rebalanced?Is this runecaster feat balanced?Is this runecaster feat balanced? (Second Iteration)Is this runecaster feat balanced? (Third Iteration)As a Sorcerer, can you trade out the spells granted by the Drow High Magic feat?
What would be the benefits of having both a state and local currencies?
Why did Kant, Hegel, and Adorno leave some words and phrases in the Greek alphabet?
Mapping a list into a phase plot
Is this Spell Mimic feat balanced?
Can somebody explain Brexit in a few child-proof sentences?
Was Spock the First Vulcan in Starfleet?
Hostile work environment after whistle-blowing on coworker and our boss. What do I do?
The baby cries all morning
Increase performance creating Mandelbrot set in python
How to be diplomatic in refusing to write code that breaches the privacy of our users
How can I use the arrow sign in my bash prompt?
voltage of sounds of mp3files
Products and sum of cubes in Fibonacci
Applicability of Single Responsibility Principle
How do I define a right arrow with bar in LaTeX?
The plural of 'stomach"
Can I use my Chinese passport to enter China after I acquired another citizenship?
Trouble understanding overseas colleagues
Short story about space worker geeks who zone out by 'listening' to radiation from stars
Is HostGator storing my password in plaintext?
Tiptoe or tiphoof? Adjusting words to better fit fantasy races
Why does John Bercow say “unlock” after reading out the results of a vote?
How do I keep an essay about "feeling flat" from feeling flat?
How can I replace every global instance of "x[2]" with "x_2"
Is this Spell Mimic feat balanced?
What is a “spellcaster” for the purpose of magic item attunement?Would changing the Artificer spell list affect balance?Can a multiclass spellcaster use spell slots of a level higher than the spells he could learn through a class to cast a spell learned through a feat?How unbalanced would a feat that allowed access to other spell lists be?How balanced are these feats that grant a specific 3rd-level spell to spellcasters?How should this homebrew class be rebalanced?Is this runecaster feat balanced?Is this runecaster feat balanced? (Second Iteration)Is this runecaster feat balanced? (Third Iteration)As a Sorcerer, can you trade out the spells granted by the Drow High Magic feat?
$begingroup$
While working on a character concept around using an opponent's strength against them, I thought of an ability that would make this cool for magic users. Initially, I thought it would be a bard subclass feature, but I don't think I want to make a whole subclass for it. Instead, I made it a feat:
Spell Mimic
Prerequisite: At least one spell slot
You are practiced at imitating the movements and words of other. Refining your skills you gain the following benefits:
- When a creature that you can see casts a spell of 1st level or higher, you can use your reaction to carefully study their movements and wording. For the next minute, you know the spell and can cast it using your spell slots.
- On your turn, you can cast the spell as normal. Casting the spells in this way still requires all components of the spell unless you have a way to avoid them.
- Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's. You use your own corresponding ability score to calculate your spellcasting ability modifier.
Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
This feat is basically a watered-down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability. It is slightly more available and more interesting though.
Is this feat balanced against other available feats?
Potential problems I've identified:
- Warlocks and clerics teaming up to use the warlock's higher-level slots for healing magic immediately before a short rest.
- Warlocks upcasting other classes' spells. Basically warlocks in general are a concern.
- It makes half-casters even weaker as they have fewer slots to spend on mimic spells.
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While working on a character concept around using an opponent's strength against them, I thought of an ability that would make this cool for magic users. Initially, I thought it would be a bard subclass feature, but I don't think I want to make a whole subclass for it. Instead, I made it a feat:
Spell Mimic
Prerequisite: At least one spell slot
You are practiced at imitating the movements and words of other. Refining your skills you gain the following benefits:
- When a creature that you can see casts a spell of 1st level or higher, you can use your reaction to carefully study their movements and wording. For the next minute, you know the spell and can cast it using your spell slots.
- On your turn, you can cast the spell as normal. Casting the spells in this way still requires all components of the spell unless you have a way to avoid them.
- Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's. You use your own corresponding ability score to calculate your spellcasting ability modifier.
Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
This feat is basically a watered-down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability. It is slightly more available and more interesting though.
Is this feat balanced against other available feats?
Potential problems I've identified:
- Warlocks and clerics teaming up to use the warlock's higher-level slots for healing magic immediately before a short rest.
- Warlocks upcasting other classes' spells. Basically warlocks in general are a concern.
- It makes half-casters even weaker as they have fewer slots to spend on mimic spells.
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
While working on a character concept around using an opponent's strength against them, I thought of an ability that would make this cool for magic users. Initially, I thought it would be a bard subclass feature, but I don't think I want to make a whole subclass for it. Instead, I made it a feat:
Spell Mimic
Prerequisite: At least one spell slot
You are practiced at imitating the movements and words of other. Refining your skills you gain the following benefits:
- When a creature that you can see casts a spell of 1st level or higher, you can use your reaction to carefully study their movements and wording. For the next minute, you know the spell and can cast it using your spell slots.
- On your turn, you can cast the spell as normal. Casting the spells in this way still requires all components of the spell unless you have a way to avoid them.
- Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's. You use your own corresponding ability score to calculate your spellcasting ability modifier.
Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
This feat is basically a watered-down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability. It is slightly more available and more interesting though.
Is this feat balanced against other available feats?
Potential problems I've identified:
- Warlocks and clerics teaming up to use the warlock's higher-level slots for healing magic immediately before a short rest.
- Warlocks upcasting other classes' spells. Basically warlocks in general are a concern.
- It makes half-casters even weaker as they have fewer slots to spend on mimic spells.
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
$endgroup$
While working on a character concept around using an opponent's strength against them, I thought of an ability that would make this cool for magic users. Initially, I thought it would be a bard subclass feature, but I don't think I want to make a whole subclass for it. Instead, I made it a feat:
Spell Mimic
Prerequisite: At least one spell slot
You are practiced at imitating the movements and words of other. Refining your skills you gain the following benefits:
- When a creature that you can see casts a spell of 1st level or higher, you can use your reaction to carefully study their movements and wording. For the next minute, you know the spell and can cast it using your spell slots.
- On your turn, you can cast the spell as normal. Casting the spells in this way still requires all components of the spell unless you have a way to avoid them.
- Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's. You use your own corresponding ability score to calculate your spellcasting ability modifier.
Once you use this ability, you cannot use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
This feat is basically a watered-down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability. It is slightly more available and more interesting though.
Is this feat balanced against other available feats?
Potential problems I've identified:
- Warlocks and clerics teaming up to use the warlock's higher-level slots for healing magic immediately before a short rest.
- Warlocks upcasting other classes' spells. Basically warlocks in general are a concern.
- It makes half-casters even weaker as they have fewer slots to spend on mimic spells.
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
dnd-5e feats homebrew balance
edited 4 hours ago
V2Blast
25.7k488158
25.7k488158
asked 4 hours ago
linksassinlinksassin
8,96712967
8,96712967
1
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Spell Mimic is too flexible
I would not say that:
This feat is basically a watered down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability.
Because in many ways the Spell Mimic feat is better than the Spell Thief feature:
- The Spell Mimic's trigger is less specific than the Spell Thief's.
- The Spell Mimic cannot fail, whereas the Spell Thief can (and does more often than not).
- The Spell Thief's ability to reproduce a spell is implicitly limited to 4th level spells slots, whereas the Spell Mimic can even work with 9th level spells.
- The Spell Mimic recovers on short rests while the Spell Thief does not.
I'll grant you that in some respects Spell Mimic in inferior to Spell Thief:
- Spell Thief preserves the memory of the new spell for much much longer than Spell Mimic.
- Spell Mimic is implicitly useless with spells that have a casting time greater than 1 minute, whereas Spell Thief is not.
- the Spell Mimic may not use their prefered spellcasting ability, whereas the Spell Thief always uses intelligence.
But Spell Mimic also lacks effects that make Spell Thief better against foes and inefficient with allies:
- Spell Thief negates the triggering spell, whereas Spell Mimic does not.
- The target of Spell Thief forgets the triggering spell whereas the target of Spell Mimic does not.
This means Spell Mimic is best suited to reliably double the efforts of your allies instead of "using an opponent's strength against them".
In practice, Spell Mimic gives a caster temporary access to the spells prepared by the rest of the party when they are most needed and effective. This flexibility combined with some teamwork makes Spell Mimic unbalanced.
Whenever the party really needs something (whether it be heals, buffs, control, or raw damage) as long as at least one other caster can provide it, the character with Spell Mimic can double their efforts by mimicking their most suitable spell. Whereas it is much rarer for an opponent to use a spell worth mimicking in any given circumstance.
Then there are also class-specific shenanigans, like:
- A Warlock can use buffs (especially ones with long duration) and heals they usually don't have access to before a short rest.
- A Sorcerer can apply their metamagic to spells that may not have been vetted for metamagic
- A Wizard can create contingencies of mimicked spells.
- A multiclass of two casters can mimick spells of a higher level than they can learn.
- A Tempest Cleric can spam a couple max-damage chain lightning.
- Etc.
My bare minimum recommendation to balance Spell Mimic is to somehow discourage targeting allies and limit it to spells of 5th level or lower.
However, it may be easier to achieve a feat that uses an opponent's strength against them via modifying something less convoluted than Spell Thief. I would explore an effect similar to the Ring of Spell Turning with adjustments like removing the advantage on saves and limiting which spell levels can be turned to match the growth of a half-caster.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f144005%2fis-this-spell-mimic-feat-balanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Spell Mimic is too flexible
I would not say that:
This feat is basically a watered down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability.
Because in many ways the Spell Mimic feat is better than the Spell Thief feature:
- The Spell Mimic's trigger is less specific than the Spell Thief's.
- The Spell Mimic cannot fail, whereas the Spell Thief can (and does more often than not).
- The Spell Thief's ability to reproduce a spell is implicitly limited to 4th level spells slots, whereas the Spell Mimic can even work with 9th level spells.
- The Spell Mimic recovers on short rests while the Spell Thief does not.
I'll grant you that in some respects Spell Mimic in inferior to Spell Thief:
- Spell Thief preserves the memory of the new spell for much much longer than Spell Mimic.
- Spell Mimic is implicitly useless with spells that have a casting time greater than 1 minute, whereas Spell Thief is not.
- the Spell Mimic may not use their prefered spellcasting ability, whereas the Spell Thief always uses intelligence.
But Spell Mimic also lacks effects that make Spell Thief better against foes and inefficient with allies:
- Spell Thief negates the triggering spell, whereas Spell Mimic does not.
- The target of Spell Thief forgets the triggering spell whereas the target of Spell Mimic does not.
This means Spell Mimic is best suited to reliably double the efforts of your allies instead of "using an opponent's strength against them".
In practice, Spell Mimic gives a caster temporary access to the spells prepared by the rest of the party when they are most needed and effective. This flexibility combined with some teamwork makes Spell Mimic unbalanced.
Whenever the party really needs something (whether it be heals, buffs, control, or raw damage) as long as at least one other caster can provide it, the character with Spell Mimic can double their efforts by mimicking their most suitable spell. Whereas it is much rarer for an opponent to use a spell worth mimicking in any given circumstance.
Then there are also class-specific shenanigans, like:
- A Warlock can use buffs (especially ones with long duration) and heals they usually don't have access to before a short rest.
- A Sorcerer can apply their metamagic to spells that may not have been vetted for metamagic
- A Wizard can create contingencies of mimicked spells.
- A multiclass of two casters can mimick spells of a higher level than they can learn.
- A Tempest Cleric can spam a couple max-damage chain lightning.
- Etc.
My bare minimum recommendation to balance Spell Mimic is to somehow discourage targeting allies and limit it to spells of 5th level or lower.
However, it may be easier to achieve a feat that uses an opponent's strength against them via modifying something less convoluted than Spell Thief. I would explore an effect similar to the Ring of Spell Turning with adjustments like removing the advantage on saves and limiting which spell levels can be turned to match the growth of a half-caster.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Spell Mimic is too flexible
I would not say that:
This feat is basically a watered down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability.
Because in many ways the Spell Mimic feat is better than the Spell Thief feature:
- The Spell Mimic's trigger is less specific than the Spell Thief's.
- The Spell Mimic cannot fail, whereas the Spell Thief can (and does more often than not).
- The Spell Thief's ability to reproduce a spell is implicitly limited to 4th level spells slots, whereas the Spell Mimic can even work with 9th level spells.
- The Spell Mimic recovers on short rests while the Spell Thief does not.
I'll grant you that in some respects Spell Mimic in inferior to Spell Thief:
- Spell Thief preserves the memory of the new spell for much much longer than Spell Mimic.
- Spell Mimic is implicitly useless with spells that have a casting time greater than 1 minute, whereas Spell Thief is not.
- the Spell Mimic may not use their prefered spellcasting ability, whereas the Spell Thief always uses intelligence.
But Spell Mimic also lacks effects that make Spell Thief better against foes and inefficient with allies:
- Spell Thief negates the triggering spell, whereas Spell Mimic does not.
- The target of Spell Thief forgets the triggering spell whereas the target of Spell Mimic does not.
This means Spell Mimic is best suited to reliably double the efforts of your allies instead of "using an opponent's strength against them".
In practice, Spell Mimic gives a caster temporary access to the spells prepared by the rest of the party when they are most needed and effective. This flexibility combined with some teamwork makes Spell Mimic unbalanced.
Whenever the party really needs something (whether it be heals, buffs, control, or raw damage) as long as at least one other caster can provide it, the character with Spell Mimic can double their efforts by mimicking their most suitable spell. Whereas it is much rarer for an opponent to use a spell worth mimicking in any given circumstance.
Then there are also class-specific shenanigans, like:
- A Warlock can use buffs (especially ones with long duration) and heals they usually don't have access to before a short rest.
- A Sorcerer can apply their metamagic to spells that may not have been vetted for metamagic
- A Wizard can create contingencies of mimicked spells.
- A multiclass of two casters can mimick spells of a higher level than they can learn.
- A Tempest Cleric can spam a couple max-damage chain lightning.
- Etc.
My bare minimum recommendation to balance Spell Mimic is to somehow discourage targeting allies and limit it to spells of 5th level or lower.
However, it may be easier to achieve a feat that uses an opponent's strength against them via modifying something less convoluted than Spell Thief. I would explore an effect similar to the Ring of Spell Turning with adjustments like removing the advantage on saves and limiting which spell levels can be turned to match the growth of a half-caster.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Spell Mimic is too flexible
I would not say that:
This feat is basically a watered down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability.
Because in many ways the Spell Mimic feat is better than the Spell Thief feature:
- The Spell Mimic's trigger is less specific than the Spell Thief's.
- The Spell Mimic cannot fail, whereas the Spell Thief can (and does more often than not).
- The Spell Thief's ability to reproduce a spell is implicitly limited to 4th level spells slots, whereas the Spell Mimic can even work with 9th level spells.
- The Spell Mimic recovers on short rests while the Spell Thief does not.
I'll grant you that in some respects Spell Mimic in inferior to Spell Thief:
- Spell Thief preserves the memory of the new spell for much much longer than Spell Mimic.
- Spell Mimic is implicitly useless with spells that have a casting time greater than 1 minute, whereas Spell Thief is not.
- the Spell Mimic may not use their prefered spellcasting ability, whereas the Spell Thief always uses intelligence.
But Spell Mimic also lacks effects that make Spell Thief better against foes and inefficient with allies:
- Spell Thief negates the triggering spell, whereas Spell Mimic does not.
- The target of Spell Thief forgets the triggering spell whereas the target of Spell Mimic does not.
This means Spell Mimic is best suited to reliably double the efforts of your allies instead of "using an opponent's strength against them".
In practice, Spell Mimic gives a caster temporary access to the spells prepared by the rest of the party when they are most needed and effective. This flexibility combined with some teamwork makes Spell Mimic unbalanced.
Whenever the party really needs something (whether it be heals, buffs, control, or raw damage) as long as at least one other caster can provide it, the character with Spell Mimic can double their efforts by mimicking their most suitable spell. Whereas it is much rarer for an opponent to use a spell worth mimicking in any given circumstance.
Then there are also class-specific shenanigans, like:
- A Warlock can use buffs (especially ones with long duration) and heals they usually don't have access to before a short rest.
- A Sorcerer can apply their metamagic to spells that may not have been vetted for metamagic
- A Wizard can create contingencies of mimicked spells.
- A multiclass of two casters can mimick spells of a higher level than they can learn.
- A Tempest Cleric can spam a couple max-damage chain lightning.
- Etc.
My bare minimum recommendation to balance Spell Mimic is to somehow discourage targeting allies and limit it to spells of 5th level or lower.
However, it may be easier to achieve a feat that uses an opponent's strength against them via modifying something less convoluted than Spell Thief. I would explore an effect similar to the Ring of Spell Turning with adjustments like removing the advantage on saves and limiting which spell levels can be turned to match the growth of a half-caster.
$endgroup$
Spell Mimic is too flexible
I would not say that:
This feat is basically a watered down version of the arcane tricksters 17th level Spell Thief ability.
Because in many ways the Spell Mimic feat is better than the Spell Thief feature:
- The Spell Mimic's trigger is less specific than the Spell Thief's.
- The Spell Mimic cannot fail, whereas the Spell Thief can (and does more often than not).
- The Spell Thief's ability to reproduce a spell is implicitly limited to 4th level spells slots, whereas the Spell Mimic can even work with 9th level spells.
- The Spell Mimic recovers on short rests while the Spell Thief does not.
I'll grant you that in some respects Spell Mimic in inferior to Spell Thief:
- Spell Thief preserves the memory of the new spell for much much longer than Spell Mimic.
- Spell Mimic is implicitly useless with spells that have a casting time greater than 1 minute, whereas Spell Thief is not.
- the Spell Mimic may not use their prefered spellcasting ability, whereas the Spell Thief always uses intelligence.
But Spell Mimic also lacks effects that make Spell Thief better against foes and inefficient with allies:
- Spell Thief negates the triggering spell, whereas Spell Mimic does not.
- The target of Spell Thief forgets the triggering spell whereas the target of Spell Mimic does not.
This means Spell Mimic is best suited to reliably double the efforts of your allies instead of "using an opponent's strength against them".
In practice, Spell Mimic gives a caster temporary access to the spells prepared by the rest of the party when they are most needed and effective. This flexibility combined with some teamwork makes Spell Mimic unbalanced.
Whenever the party really needs something (whether it be heals, buffs, control, or raw damage) as long as at least one other caster can provide it, the character with Spell Mimic can double their efforts by mimicking their most suitable spell. Whereas it is much rarer for an opponent to use a spell worth mimicking in any given circumstance.
Then there are also class-specific shenanigans, like:
- A Warlock can use buffs (especially ones with long duration) and heals they usually don't have access to before a short rest.
- A Sorcerer can apply their metamagic to spells that may not have been vetted for metamagic
- A Wizard can create contingencies of mimicked spells.
- A multiclass of two casters can mimick spells of a higher level than they can learn.
- A Tempest Cleric can spam a couple max-damage chain lightning.
- Etc.
My bare minimum recommendation to balance Spell Mimic is to somehow discourage targeting allies and limit it to spells of 5th level or lower.
However, it may be easier to achieve a feat that uses an opponent's strength against them via modifying something less convoluted than Spell Thief. I would explore an effect similar to the Ring of Spell Turning with adjustments like removing the advantage on saves and limiting which spell levels can be turned to match the growth of a half-caster.
edited 24 mins ago
answered 3 hours ago
RuseRuse
6,79111556
6,79111556
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks for a great breakdown. One restriction I had concidered was requiring concentration while the spell was mimic'ed. Would this be a good change? (I know this might require another question but if it's a terrible idea I won't bother.)
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Also would adding a skill check of DC10+Spell Level to copy it help the balance?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
2 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@linksassin concentration would limit the feat in combat, but would not do much to stop the weirder out of combat prepwork that the feat allows for. Adding some chance of failure would help balance the feat, yes.
$endgroup$
– Ruse
2 hours ago
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f144005%2fis-this-spell-mimic-feat-balanced%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
"Your spellcasting ability for this spell is the same as the original caster's" reads as though the mimic caster uses the same ability as the original caster, but their own ability score modifier to calculate the spell attack bonus or spell DC. Is that correct?
$endgroup$
– Ruse
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Ruse That is correct. It should be if the original caster used int you use your int. How can I adjust the wording to make it clearer?
$endgroup$
– linksassin
4 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@linksassin: I've attempted to clarify that wording.
$endgroup$
– V2Blast
4 hours ago