Character Optimization: highest DPR with the Shillelagh cantripOptimizing Riddick BuildOptimal martial ranged non-human level 15 build for DPR/SurvivalWhat is the most DPR possible at level 1?Optimized DPR at 10th to 13th level for a Vengeance PaladinFor Druid 2/ Sorcerer 4 “midfielder”, is the feat Polearm Master, Dual Wielding, Charger, or Savage Attacker most damaging in combat?How can I build an effective whip fighter?Is this a time to choose minimum damage per hit over average DPR?How do flat modifiers (like those from magic weapons) affect DPR comparison in GWF vs TWF?Does this low-Str/low-Dex idea for a Fighter work out?What weapon combination gives the highest DPR on my character?

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Character Optimization: highest DPR with the Shillelagh cantrip


Optimizing Riddick BuildOptimal martial ranged non-human level 15 build for DPR/SurvivalWhat is the most DPR possible at level 1?Optimized DPR at 10th to 13th level for a Vengeance PaladinFor Druid 2/ Sorcerer 4 “midfielder”, is the feat Polearm Master, Dual Wielding, Charger, or Savage Attacker most damaging in combat?How can I build an effective whip fighter?Is this a time to choose minimum damage per hit over average DPR?How do flat modifiers (like those from magic weapons) affect DPR comparison in GWF vs TWF?Does this low-Str/low-Dex idea for a Fighter work out?What weapon combination gives the highest DPR on my character?






.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








9












$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:



  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew

Optimization Goals:



  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources

Bonus points for:



  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh

So far I have:



  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI









share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
    $endgroup$
    – SaggingRufus
    4 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    1 hour ago

















9












$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:



  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew

Optimization Goals:



  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources

Bonus points for:



  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh

So far I have:



  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI









share|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
    $endgroup$
    – SaggingRufus
    4 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    1 hour ago













9












9








9


2



$begingroup$


I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:



  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew

Optimization Goals:



  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources

Bonus points for:



  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh

So far I have:



  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI









share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I'd like to optimize my character concept:



I want my main damage source to be a Shillelagh'd weapon and squeeze that source for all it's worth.



Table character limitations:



  • Character is level 5

  • Point buy for level 1 ability scores

  • No multiclassing allowed

  • Variant Humans and Duergar are banned

  • Each character gets a free feat at level 1, provided they qualify for that feat at level 1

  • All official sources are allowed and can be mixed, but UA is only allowed on a per case basis (so preferably not used), no homebrew

Optimization Goals:



  • Highest average damage per round possible, using Shillelagh

  • Secondary goal is highest effective number of hit points, assuming a well mixed pool of damage sources

Bonus points for:



  • Not using UA

  • Actually having a use for my Wisdom score besides whacking with Shillelagh

So far I have:



  • Hill dwarf for the juicy Con and Wis + free HP

  • Go Fighter, archetype Champion for extra attack DPR and heavy armor + shield + armored fighting style

  • Take Magic Initiate feat level 1 for Shillelagh + absorb elements

  • Pump Wis with ASI






dnd-5e character-creation optimization damage cantrips






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 22 mins ago









V2Blast

27.8k598169




27.8k598169










asked 11 hours ago









DonFusiliDonFusili

796413




796413







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
    $endgroup$
    – SaggingRufus
    4 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    1 hour ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
    $endgroup$
    – SaggingRufus
    4 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    @SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
    $endgroup$
    – Ben Barden
    1 hour ago







2




2




$begingroup$
Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why the close vote? Question seems clear enough
$endgroup$
– BlueMoon93
9 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why not just play a character that you would enjoy? There's soooo more to D&D than combat and min/maxing a character.
$endgroup$
– SaggingRufus
4 hours ago




4




4




$begingroup$
@SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
$endgroup$
– DonFusili
4 hours ago





$begingroup$
@SaggingRufus Yes, like letting people play the way they want. But since you asked: This table's DM is notorious for fitting as many deadly encounters in an adventuring day as he can. As such, a suboptimal build I would enjoy (<-!) playing better be min/maxed if I want the character to survive even one session.
$endgroup$
– DonFusili
4 hours ago





3




3




$begingroup$
I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
I might suggest removing "whirlwind" from the title. At first, I thought you wanted that Ranger feature in your build.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Do you mean burst damage x/long rest, burst damage x/short rest, or at-will DPR? Different builds will provide different amounts.
$endgroup$
– Ben Barden
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

Hunter Ranger



Wisdom is one of the Ranger's main stats, you get martial features that are very strong at this level, as well as very strong utility in the form of spells and abilities. Combat-wise, you get:



  • Dueling fighting style

  • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

  • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)

You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    8 hours ago







  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    7 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    7 hours ago







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    6 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    6 hours ago



















2












$begingroup$

As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



Draconic Sorcerer 5.



Benefits:
Twinned Booming Blade, allowing you to charge your stick with thunder and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (thunder) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies move later an extra 2d8 thunder.

Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
    $endgroup$
    – Stackstuck
    3 hours ago


















0












$begingroup$

hexblade bladelock, something that gets +cha



Hexblade lets you attack with charisma. Quarterstaff is versatile rather than two-handed, so it's legit (you won't be using the versatile bit. It's redundant).
For invocations, take Thirsting blade at level 5, giving you two attacks per attack action.
Take Polearm mastery feat at level 4. That'll give you butt-stroke as a bonus action. With shillelagh, it's doing 1d8 rather than 1d4.
Cast Hex



After a startup of one turn where you only hit twice, you get three attacks per round of 1d8+1d6+3(cha)... which is about on par with a ranger who's doing the same thing, except that your hex spells refresh on a short rest, and you have hexblade's curse 1/day to play with.



Really, though, you're trying to optimize the wrong thing. "Blender optimization" is never going to get you a druid or a cleric. Beyond those, the only class that cares about wisdom is monk, and they can already use the staff with dex. They also don't have any reason to not use it two-handed, which makes it 1d8 damage anyway... so monks have no need for shillelagh. The non-monk potential blenders out there can all use martial weapons one way or the other, which will get you that 1d8 damage pretty readily, which means that the only thing it nets you there is the ability to take polearm mastery and deal 1d8 on the butt-stroke... if you have that feat. Glaive does it better, too, which means that you pretty much also need to be using a shield.



Basically, shillelagh is there to give druids something they can do in melee. It's good at that. It's not good at anything else.



You can do this, but there's really not much there to squeeze.





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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    5












    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Wisdom is one of the Ranger's main stats, you get martial features that are very strong at this level, as well as very strong utility in the form of spells and abilities. Combat-wise, you get:



    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)

    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      8 hours ago







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      6 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      6 hours ago
















    5












    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Wisdom is one of the Ranger's main stats, you get martial features that are very strong at this level, as well as very strong utility in the form of spells and abilities. Combat-wise, you get:



    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)

    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      8 hours ago







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      6 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      6 hours ago














    5












    5








    5





    $begingroup$

    Hunter Ranger



    Wisdom is one of the Ranger's main stats, you get martial features that are very strong at this level, as well as very strong utility in the form of spells and abilities. Combat-wise, you get:



    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)

    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Hunter Ranger



    Wisdom is one of the Ranger's main stats, you get martial features that are very strong at this level, as well as very strong utility in the form of spells and abilities. Combat-wise, you get:



    • Dueling fighting style

    • Extra Attack, Hunter's Prey (your pick)

    • Spells (like Hunter's Mark)

    You also get Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer and non-combat spells, for utility. Assuming you have cast Shillelagh, Hunter's Mark (at level 5, you can do this 6 times a day) and chosen Colossus Slayer, this means you make 3d8+2d6+4+WIS*2 when you land both your attacks on a single-target.



    Compared with the Fighter, you lose some AC (medium-armor only), but you may not have disadvantage on Stealth checks, depending on which armor you choose to use. You also lose Second Wind and Action Surge (each once per short rest), and Improved Critical. I haven't done the math for Champion, but I think at level 5 you can out-DPR it as a Hunter Ranger.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 1 hour ago

























    answered 8 hours ago









    BlueMoon93BlueMoon93

    16.5k1190158




    16.5k1190158







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      8 hours ago







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      6 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      6 hours ago













    • 3




      $begingroup$
      "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      8 hours ago







    • 3




      $begingroup$
      The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
      $endgroup$
      – Szega
      7 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
      $endgroup$
      – BlueMoon93
      7 hours ago







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
      $endgroup$
      – Alk
      6 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
      $endgroup$
      – NathanS
      6 hours ago








    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    8 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    "You also lose some HP"; Rangers and Fighters both have d10 hit die, so where is this loss coming from? Also, it might be worth making explicit that Shillelagh would have to come from Magic Initiate... or Wood Elf Magic (Xanathar's feat) if the race is Wood Elf (the race also gives +1 WIS).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    8 hours ago





    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    7 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    The damage for 2 hits should include 2d6, as hunter's mark will proc on every hit.
    $endgroup$
    – Szega
    7 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    7 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    Fixed, my bad! Thought rangers had smaller hit die, and forgot about Hunters Mark
    $endgroup$
    – BlueMoon93
    7 hours ago





    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    6 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Wood Elf would open up the U.A. Feat Elven Accuracy, allowing a reroll of an advantage die(later levels).
    $endgroup$
    – Alk
    6 hours ago




    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    6 hours ago





    $begingroup$
    @Alk OP says no UA; however, Elven Accuracy made it into Xanathar's so it's not UA anymore. This could be taken at level 4 instead of the WIS bump potentially (still need to use the level 1 feat to gain access to shillelagh though).
    $endgroup$
    – NathanS
    6 hours ago














    2












    $begingroup$

    As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



    Draconic Sorcerer 5.



    Benefits:
    Twinned Booming Blade, allowing you to charge your stick with thunder and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (thunder) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies move later an extra 2d8 thunder.

    Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
    Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
    Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



    The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
      $endgroup$
      – DonFusili
      4 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
      $endgroup$
      – Stackstuck
      3 hours ago















    2












    $begingroup$

    As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



    Draconic Sorcerer 5.



    Benefits:
    Twinned Booming Blade, allowing you to charge your stick with thunder and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (thunder) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies move later an extra 2d8 thunder.

    Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
    Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
    Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



    The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
      $endgroup$
      – DonFusili
      4 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
      $endgroup$
      – Stackstuck
      3 hours ago













    2












    2








    2





    $begingroup$

    As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



    Draconic Sorcerer 5.



    Benefits:
    Twinned Booming Blade, allowing you to charge your stick with thunder and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (thunder) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies move later an extra 2d8 thunder.

    Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
    Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
    Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



    The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    As an alternative to a generic anything-with-Extra-Attack-answer:



    Draconic Sorcerer 5.



    Benefits:
    Twinned Booming Blade, allowing you to charge your stick with thunder and bash two people at once for 1d8 (bludgeoning) + 1d8 (thunder) + Wis-mod, and if those enemies move later an extra 2d8 thunder.

    Draconic Sorcerer gets an increased AC and extra health (stack it with Hill Dwarf to have an unreasonably healthy sorcerer).
    Haste will allow you to get another stickbash out every turn, while ensuring your enemies can't flee from your stick.
    Shield will give you a ton of survivability to stick around in melee.



    The downside of this is a bit of multi-ability-dependency in the build, but there are plenty of sorcerer spells that don't use charisma at all - selecting those (haste, blink, mirror image, blur, etc..) allows you to go all in on the Wisdom-melee style.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 44 mins ago









    Davo

    9111721




    9111721










    answered 6 hours ago









    SpeedkatSpeedkat

    3,973732




    3,973732







    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
      $endgroup$
      – DonFusili
      4 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
      $endgroup$
      – Stackstuck
      3 hours ago












    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      5 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
      $endgroup$
      – DonFusili
      4 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
      $endgroup$
      – Stackstuck
      3 hours ago







    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    5 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I don't think you're raw allowed to use twinned green flame blade because it can hit an additional target, or something similarly silly.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    5 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I love your answer, so +1, but feel like it doesn't really answer the question that's specifically about optimization. I'll definitely play this character at another, less lethal table, but will have to accept another answer.
    $endgroup$
    – DonFusili
    4 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
    $endgroup$
    – Stackstuck
    3 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Booming Blade would work, though. And then, uh, War Caster so you can make people go boom on AoOs.
    $endgroup$
    – Stackstuck
    3 hours ago











    0












    $begingroup$

    hexblade bladelock, something that gets +cha



    Hexblade lets you attack with charisma. Quarterstaff is versatile rather than two-handed, so it's legit (you won't be using the versatile bit. It's redundant).
    For invocations, take Thirsting blade at level 5, giving you two attacks per attack action.
    Take Polearm mastery feat at level 4. That'll give you butt-stroke as a bonus action. With shillelagh, it's doing 1d8 rather than 1d4.
    Cast Hex



    After a startup of one turn where you only hit twice, you get three attacks per round of 1d8+1d6+3(cha)... which is about on par with a ranger who's doing the same thing, except that your hex spells refresh on a short rest, and you have hexblade's curse 1/day to play with.



    Really, though, you're trying to optimize the wrong thing. "Blender optimization" is never going to get you a druid or a cleric. Beyond those, the only class that cares about wisdom is monk, and they can already use the staff with dex. They also don't have any reason to not use it two-handed, which makes it 1d8 damage anyway... so monks have no need for shillelagh. The non-monk potential blenders out there can all use martial weapons one way or the other, which will get you that 1d8 damage pretty readily, which means that the only thing it nets you there is the ability to take polearm mastery and deal 1d8 on the butt-stroke... if you have that feat. Glaive does it better, too, which means that you pretty much also need to be using a shield.



    Basically, shillelagh is there to give druids something they can do in melee. It's good at that. It's not good at anything else.



    You can do this, but there's really not much there to squeeze.





    share









    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      hexblade bladelock, something that gets +cha



      Hexblade lets you attack with charisma. Quarterstaff is versatile rather than two-handed, so it's legit (you won't be using the versatile bit. It's redundant).
      For invocations, take Thirsting blade at level 5, giving you two attacks per attack action.
      Take Polearm mastery feat at level 4. That'll give you butt-stroke as a bonus action. With shillelagh, it's doing 1d8 rather than 1d4.
      Cast Hex



      After a startup of one turn where you only hit twice, you get three attacks per round of 1d8+1d6+3(cha)... which is about on par with a ranger who's doing the same thing, except that your hex spells refresh on a short rest, and you have hexblade's curse 1/day to play with.



      Really, though, you're trying to optimize the wrong thing. "Blender optimization" is never going to get you a druid or a cleric. Beyond those, the only class that cares about wisdom is monk, and they can already use the staff with dex. They also don't have any reason to not use it two-handed, which makes it 1d8 damage anyway... so monks have no need for shillelagh. The non-monk potential blenders out there can all use martial weapons one way or the other, which will get you that 1d8 damage pretty readily, which means that the only thing it nets you there is the ability to take polearm mastery and deal 1d8 on the butt-stroke... if you have that feat. Glaive does it better, too, which means that you pretty much also need to be using a shield.



      Basically, shillelagh is there to give druids something they can do in melee. It's good at that. It's not good at anything else.



      You can do this, but there's really not much there to squeeze.





      share









      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        hexblade bladelock, something that gets +cha



        Hexblade lets you attack with charisma. Quarterstaff is versatile rather than two-handed, so it's legit (you won't be using the versatile bit. It's redundant).
        For invocations, take Thirsting blade at level 5, giving you two attacks per attack action.
        Take Polearm mastery feat at level 4. That'll give you butt-stroke as a bonus action. With shillelagh, it's doing 1d8 rather than 1d4.
        Cast Hex



        After a startup of one turn where you only hit twice, you get three attacks per round of 1d8+1d6+3(cha)... which is about on par with a ranger who's doing the same thing, except that your hex spells refresh on a short rest, and you have hexblade's curse 1/day to play with.



        Really, though, you're trying to optimize the wrong thing. "Blender optimization" is never going to get you a druid or a cleric. Beyond those, the only class that cares about wisdom is monk, and they can already use the staff with dex. They also don't have any reason to not use it two-handed, which makes it 1d8 damage anyway... so monks have no need for shillelagh. The non-monk potential blenders out there can all use martial weapons one way or the other, which will get you that 1d8 damage pretty readily, which means that the only thing it nets you there is the ability to take polearm mastery and deal 1d8 on the butt-stroke... if you have that feat. Glaive does it better, too, which means that you pretty much also need to be using a shield.



        Basically, shillelagh is there to give druids something they can do in melee. It's good at that. It's not good at anything else.



        You can do this, but there's really not much there to squeeze.





        share









        $endgroup$



        hexblade bladelock, something that gets +cha



        Hexblade lets you attack with charisma. Quarterstaff is versatile rather than two-handed, so it's legit (you won't be using the versatile bit. It's redundant).
        For invocations, take Thirsting blade at level 5, giving you two attacks per attack action.
        Take Polearm mastery feat at level 4. That'll give you butt-stroke as a bonus action. With shillelagh, it's doing 1d8 rather than 1d4.
        Cast Hex



        After a startup of one turn where you only hit twice, you get three attacks per round of 1d8+1d6+3(cha)... which is about on par with a ranger who's doing the same thing, except that your hex spells refresh on a short rest, and you have hexblade's curse 1/day to play with.



        Really, though, you're trying to optimize the wrong thing. "Blender optimization" is never going to get you a druid or a cleric. Beyond those, the only class that cares about wisdom is monk, and they can already use the staff with dex. They also don't have any reason to not use it two-handed, which makes it 1d8 damage anyway... so monks have no need for shillelagh. The non-monk potential blenders out there can all use martial weapons one way or the other, which will get you that 1d8 damage pretty readily, which means that the only thing it nets you there is the ability to take polearm mastery and deal 1d8 on the butt-stroke... if you have that feat. Glaive does it better, too, which means that you pretty much also need to be using a shield.



        Basically, shillelagh is there to give druids something they can do in melee. It's good at that. It's not good at anything else.



        You can do this, but there's really not much there to squeeze.






        share











        share


        share










        answered 3 mins ago









        Ben BardenBen Barden

        12.3k23067




        12.3k23067



























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