Where was the County of Thurn und Taxis located?When did the Holy Roman Empire collapse?Was Willem the Silent Dutch?What is the Holy Roman Empire?Did any commoners become prince-electors during the Holy Roman Empire?What government functions, if any, did the archchancellor of the HRE actually exercise?How were the borders of the Holy Roman Empire established?Where was the ruling seat of East Francia located under Henry the Fowler?How were the territories added to (and thus the limits set in) the Holy Roman EmpireHow did member states of the Holy Roman Empire justify only including part of their land inside it?What statuses did Black Africans have in the court and royal family of Emperor Frederick II of Hohenstaufen and do their descendants survive?

NPN: Not fully sinking to GND

Co-worker works way more than he should

Apply a different color ramp to subset of categorized symbols in QGIS?

Was Dennis Ritchie being too modest in this quote about C and Pascal?

Is it acceptable to use working hours to read general interest books?

A ​Note ​on ​N!

Work requires me to come in early to start computer but wont let me clock in to get paid for it

Prove that the countable union of countable sets is also countable

What is purpose of DB Browser(dbbrowser.aspx) under admin tool?

Are there moral objections to a life motivated purely by money? How to sway a person from this lifestyle?

Where was the County of Thurn und Taxis located?

Why didn't the Space Shuttle bounce back into space as many times as possible so as to lose a lot of kinetic energy up there?

How can I wire a 9-position switch so that each position turns on one more LED than the one before?

What does "function" actually mean in music?

All ASCII characters with a given bit count

Why did C use the -> operator instead of reusing the . operator?

What is the most expensive material in the world that could be used to create Pun-Pun's lute?

Help with my training data

Negative Resistance

Which big number is bigger?

Find the identical rows in a matrix

What is this word supposed to be?

How do I produce this symbol: Ϟ in pdfLaTeX?

Contradiction proof for inequality of P and NP?



Where was the County of Thurn und Taxis located?


When did the Holy Roman Empire collapse?Was Willem the Silent Dutch?What is the Holy Roman Empire?Did any commoners become prince-electors during the Holy Roman Empire?What government functions, if any, did the archchancellor of the HRE actually exercise?How were the borders of the Holy Roman Empire established?Where was the ruling seat of East Francia located under Henry the Fowler?How were the territories added to (and thus the limits set in) the Holy Roman EmpireHow did member states of the Holy Roman Empire justify only including part of their land inside it?What statuses did Black Africans have in the court and royal family of Emperor Frederick II of Hohenstaufen and do their descendants survive?













9















Thurn und Taxis is a German princely family most famous for starting the first modern postal service. Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle, but it isn’t clear where exactly it was. So where was it located in the empire? Or was it not landed?










share|improve this question

















  • 5





    I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

    – David Richerby
    5 hours ago















9















Thurn und Taxis is a German princely family most famous for starting the first modern postal service. Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle, but it isn’t clear where exactly it was. So where was it located in the empire? Or was it not landed?










share|improve this question

















  • 5





    I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

    – David Richerby
    5 hours ago













9












9








9


2






Thurn und Taxis is a German princely family most famous for starting the first modern postal service. Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle, but it isn’t clear where exactly it was. So where was it located in the empire? Or was it not landed?










share|improve this question














Thurn und Taxis is a German princely family most famous for starting the first modern postal service. Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle, but it isn’t clear where exactly it was. So where was it located in the empire? Or was it not landed?







holy-roman-empire






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 9 hours ago









WiJaMaWiJaMa

1337




1337







  • 5





    I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

    – David Richerby
    5 hours ago












  • 5





    I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

    – David Richerby
    5 hours ago







5




5





I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

– David Richerby
5 hours ago





I'm disappointed that they started a postal service rather than a transit service.

– David Richerby
5 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















10














Nowhere. As at the time they were introduced to that circle, they were not landed.




The family Tasso originated in Lombardy and made up their genealogy to include "were once rulers there". While the Rhenish Circle consisted mainly of territories, represented by their rulers, the Thurn und Taxis family were personal members of that circle.



This was compensation for the debts the emperor had with them. An exception; and quite vigorously opposed by the other, traditional, landed rulers.



Also note that




Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle…




is not the correct reading for this. Wikipedia lists them as members (and unlike the correct German Wikipedia, the English Wikipedia confuses readers with the table heading "states", while correctly grouping "Type of entity: Barons –– Briefadel without territory, Freiherren from 1608, Counts from 1624, raised to Princely Counts in 1695"




Cornello dei Tasso at Camerata Cornello, Lombardy
The Lombard dynasty first appears in documents with Reinerius de Tasso in 1117. Odonus de Taxo is mentioned 1146 in Val Brembana, north of Bergamo; there the name also appears around 1200 in Almenno. During the battles between Guelphs and Ghibellines in Bergamo, between the Colleoni and Suardi families, the family moved to Camerata Cornello, a few kilometres higher in the valley. Here, with Homodeus de Tazzis (Italian: Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) in 1251, the line of the tribes begins. The hamlet of Cornello dei Tasso still reminds us of the family.



Tasso is the Italian word for badger, the heraldic animal of the family, Dax, Daxen, from which the name Taxis developed. In the French-speaking postal contract of 1505 between Philip the Fair and Francis of Taxis, the de Tassis family was named, as is still customary in French today.



Thurn

When the Taxis, which had meanwhile moved to Brussels, were elevated to the status of hereditary counts in 1624, they needed an illustrious ancestry to legitimise their intended advancement to the high nobility. Alexandrine von Taxis commissioned genealogists to "clarify" the origin of the taxis, which until then had only been regarded as a small family of knights who had changed to the merchant class. They now claimed, albeit without documentary evidence, that the taxis descended from the Italian noble family of the Torriani, or della Torre, who had ruled in Milan and Lombardy until 1311. As a result, the taxis applied to the emperor for a change of name. During the Germanization the tower (Torre) became Thurn (cf. mhd. turn) and the tower was added as coat of arms multiplication.



Thurn and Taxis

From 1650, with the permission of Emperor Ferdinand III of Thurn, Brussels taxis were allowed to call themselves Valsassina and Taxis, which became Thurn und Taxis, in French de la Tour et Tassis, in Italian della Torre e Tasso. Also the Innsbrucker and the Augsburger branch of the family renamed themselves.




The early ennoblement wasn't all there is to it:




In 1681, the Brussels line (later in Frankfurt and Regensburg) was elevated to the Spanish-Dutch princely estate with Eugen Alexander, with Braine-le-Château as Titular Principality (Principauté de la Tour et Tassis), and in 1695 to the Imperial Princely Estate, although at that time no territorial possession existed in the Empire. In 1704 he was admitted to the Imperial Princely Council, with a share of the Kuriatstimme of the Kurrheinischen Kreis at the Reichstag; in 1724 he was admitted to the Schwäbisches Reichsgrafenkollegium for Eglingen; in 1754 he received a Virilstimme for the Reichsgeneralerbpostmeisteramt; in 1803 he received another Virilstimme for the Reichsfürstentum Buchau. Since 1741 the house on the "Perpetual Reichstag" has been the principal commissioner.
(Translated from Wikipedia Thurn und Taxis)



So the princely house Thurn and Taxis was 'an estate' of the Kurrheinischen Circle, but did not possess a plot of land in the same… (src)




This is not to say that they didn't have any territory under their control, despite having a clear centre for their lives in either Brussels or Frankfurt when they entered the Kurrheinische Reichskreis. The full title of Karl Anselm von Thurn und Taxis (a mere century later, 1733–1805) was




Des Hl. Röm. Reiches Fürst zu Thurn und Taxis, Graf zu Valvasina, Freiherr zu Impden, Herr der Freien Reichsherrschaft Eglingen und Osterhofen, Balmershofen, Durtenstein, Wolfertheim, Rossum und Meusseghem, der souveränen Provinz Hennegau Erbmarschall
Michael Müller: "Die Entwicklung des Kurrheinischen Kreises in seiner Verbindung mit dem Oberrheinischen Kreis im 18. Jahrhundert", Peter Lang, 2008. (p 126–129)




The point here is that none of their lands where within the Reichskreis and those lands they did own at the end of the 17th century were private property, not princely estates eligible for being a member of a Kreis.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    7 hours ago












  • @PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

    – LangLangC
    6 hours ago











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "324"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52295%2fwhere-was-the-county-of-thurn-und-taxis-located%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









10














Nowhere. As at the time they were introduced to that circle, they were not landed.




The family Tasso originated in Lombardy and made up their genealogy to include "were once rulers there". While the Rhenish Circle consisted mainly of territories, represented by their rulers, the Thurn und Taxis family were personal members of that circle.



This was compensation for the debts the emperor had with them. An exception; and quite vigorously opposed by the other, traditional, landed rulers.



Also note that




Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle…




is not the correct reading for this. Wikipedia lists them as members (and unlike the correct German Wikipedia, the English Wikipedia confuses readers with the table heading "states", while correctly grouping "Type of entity: Barons –– Briefadel without territory, Freiherren from 1608, Counts from 1624, raised to Princely Counts in 1695"




Cornello dei Tasso at Camerata Cornello, Lombardy
The Lombard dynasty first appears in documents with Reinerius de Tasso in 1117. Odonus de Taxo is mentioned 1146 in Val Brembana, north of Bergamo; there the name also appears around 1200 in Almenno. During the battles between Guelphs and Ghibellines in Bergamo, between the Colleoni and Suardi families, the family moved to Camerata Cornello, a few kilometres higher in the valley. Here, with Homodeus de Tazzis (Italian: Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) in 1251, the line of the tribes begins. The hamlet of Cornello dei Tasso still reminds us of the family.



Tasso is the Italian word for badger, the heraldic animal of the family, Dax, Daxen, from which the name Taxis developed. In the French-speaking postal contract of 1505 between Philip the Fair and Francis of Taxis, the de Tassis family was named, as is still customary in French today.



Thurn

When the Taxis, which had meanwhile moved to Brussels, were elevated to the status of hereditary counts in 1624, they needed an illustrious ancestry to legitimise their intended advancement to the high nobility. Alexandrine von Taxis commissioned genealogists to "clarify" the origin of the taxis, which until then had only been regarded as a small family of knights who had changed to the merchant class. They now claimed, albeit without documentary evidence, that the taxis descended from the Italian noble family of the Torriani, or della Torre, who had ruled in Milan and Lombardy until 1311. As a result, the taxis applied to the emperor for a change of name. During the Germanization the tower (Torre) became Thurn (cf. mhd. turn) and the tower was added as coat of arms multiplication.



Thurn and Taxis

From 1650, with the permission of Emperor Ferdinand III of Thurn, Brussels taxis were allowed to call themselves Valsassina and Taxis, which became Thurn und Taxis, in French de la Tour et Tassis, in Italian della Torre e Tasso. Also the Innsbrucker and the Augsburger branch of the family renamed themselves.




The early ennoblement wasn't all there is to it:




In 1681, the Brussels line (later in Frankfurt and Regensburg) was elevated to the Spanish-Dutch princely estate with Eugen Alexander, with Braine-le-Château as Titular Principality (Principauté de la Tour et Tassis), and in 1695 to the Imperial Princely Estate, although at that time no territorial possession existed in the Empire. In 1704 he was admitted to the Imperial Princely Council, with a share of the Kuriatstimme of the Kurrheinischen Kreis at the Reichstag; in 1724 he was admitted to the Schwäbisches Reichsgrafenkollegium for Eglingen; in 1754 he received a Virilstimme for the Reichsgeneralerbpostmeisteramt; in 1803 he received another Virilstimme for the Reichsfürstentum Buchau. Since 1741 the house on the "Perpetual Reichstag" has been the principal commissioner.
(Translated from Wikipedia Thurn und Taxis)



So the princely house Thurn and Taxis was 'an estate' of the Kurrheinischen Circle, but did not possess a plot of land in the same… (src)




This is not to say that they didn't have any territory under their control, despite having a clear centre for their lives in either Brussels or Frankfurt when they entered the Kurrheinische Reichskreis. The full title of Karl Anselm von Thurn und Taxis (a mere century later, 1733–1805) was




Des Hl. Röm. Reiches Fürst zu Thurn und Taxis, Graf zu Valvasina, Freiherr zu Impden, Herr der Freien Reichsherrschaft Eglingen und Osterhofen, Balmershofen, Durtenstein, Wolfertheim, Rossum und Meusseghem, der souveränen Provinz Hennegau Erbmarschall
Michael Müller: "Die Entwicklung des Kurrheinischen Kreises in seiner Verbindung mit dem Oberrheinischen Kreis im 18. Jahrhundert", Peter Lang, 2008. (p 126–129)




The point here is that none of their lands where within the Reichskreis and those lands they did own at the end of the 17th century were private property, not princely estates eligible for being a member of a Kreis.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    7 hours ago












  • @PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

    – LangLangC
    6 hours ago















10














Nowhere. As at the time they were introduced to that circle, they were not landed.




The family Tasso originated in Lombardy and made up their genealogy to include "were once rulers there". While the Rhenish Circle consisted mainly of territories, represented by their rulers, the Thurn und Taxis family were personal members of that circle.



This was compensation for the debts the emperor had with them. An exception; and quite vigorously opposed by the other, traditional, landed rulers.



Also note that




Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle…




is not the correct reading for this. Wikipedia lists them as members (and unlike the correct German Wikipedia, the English Wikipedia confuses readers with the table heading "states", while correctly grouping "Type of entity: Barons –– Briefadel without territory, Freiherren from 1608, Counts from 1624, raised to Princely Counts in 1695"




Cornello dei Tasso at Camerata Cornello, Lombardy
The Lombard dynasty first appears in documents with Reinerius de Tasso in 1117. Odonus de Taxo is mentioned 1146 in Val Brembana, north of Bergamo; there the name also appears around 1200 in Almenno. During the battles between Guelphs and Ghibellines in Bergamo, between the Colleoni and Suardi families, the family moved to Camerata Cornello, a few kilometres higher in the valley. Here, with Homodeus de Tazzis (Italian: Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) in 1251, the line of the tribes begins. The hamlet of Cornello dei Tasso still reminds us of the family.



Tasso is the Italian word for badger, the heraldic animal of the family, Dax, Daxen, from which the name Taxis developed. In the French-speaking postal contract of 1505 between Philip the Fair and Francis of Taxis, the de Tassis family was named, as is still customary in French today.



Thurn

When the Taxis, which had meanwhile moved to Brussels, were elevated to the status of hereditary counts in 1624, they needed an illustrious ancestry to legitimise their intended advancement to the high nobility. Alexandrine von Taxis commissioned genealogists to "clarify" the origin of the taxis, which until then had only been regarded as a small family of knights who had changed to the merchant class. They now claimed, albeit without documentary evidence, that the taxis descended from the Italian noble family of the Torriani, or della Torre, who had ruled in Milan and Lombardy until 1311. As a result, the taxis applied to the emperor for a change of name. During the Germanization the tower (Torre) became Thurn (cf. mhd. turn) and the tower was added as coat of arms multiplication.



Thurn and Taxis

From 1650, with the permission of Emperor Ferdinand III of Thurn, Brussels taxis were allowed to call themselves Valsassina and Taxis, which became Thurn und Taxis, in French de la Tour et Tassis, in Italian della Torre e Tasso. Also the Innsbrucker and the Augsburger branch of the family renamed themselves.




The early ennoblement wasn't all there is to it:




In 1681, the Brussels line (later in Frankfurt and Regensburg) was elevated to the Spanish-Dutch princely estate with Eugen Alexander, with Braine-le-Château as Titular Principality (Principauté de la Tour et Tassis), and in 1695 to the Imperial Princely Estate, although at that time no territorial possession existed in the Empire. In 1704 he was admitted to the Imperial Princely Council, with a share of the Kuriatstimme of the Kurrheinischen Kreis at the Reichstag; in 1724 he was admitted to the Schwäbisches Reichsgrafenkollegium for Eglingen; in 1754 he received a Virilstimme for the Reichsgeneralerbpostmeisteramt; in 1803 he received another Virilstimme for the Reichsfürstentum Buchau. Since 1741 the house on the "Perpetual Reichstag" has been the principal commissioner.
(Translated from Wikipedia Thurn und Taxis)



So the princely house Thurn and Taxis was 'an estate' of the Kurrheinischen Circle, but did not possess a plot of land in the same… (src)




This is not to say that they didn't have any territory under their control, despite having a clear centre for their lives in either Brussels or Frankfurt when they entered the Kurrheinische Reichskreis. The full title of Karl Anselm von Thurn und Taxis (a mere century later, 1733–1805) was




Des Hl. Röm. Reiches Fürst zu Thurn und Taxis, Graf zu Valvasina, Freiherr zu Impden, Herr der Freien Reichsherrschaft Eglingen und Osterhofen, Balmershofen, Durtenstein, Wolfertheim, Rossum und Meusseghem, der souveränen Provinz Hennegau Erbmarschall
Michael Müller: "Die Entwicklung des Kurrheinischen Kreises in seiner Verbindung mit dem Oberrheinischen Kreis im 18. Jahrhundert", Peter Lang, 2008. (p 126–129)




The point here is that none of their lands where within the Reichskreis and those lands they did own at the end of the 17th century were private property, not princely estates eligible for being a member of a Kreis.






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    7 hours ago












  • @PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

    – LangLangC
    6 hours ago













10












10








10







Nowhere. As at the time they were introduced to that circle, they were not landed.




The family Tasso originated in Lombardy and made up their genealogy to include "were once rulers there". While the Rhenish Circle consisted mainly of territories, represented by their rulers, the Thurn und Taxis family were personal members of that circle.



This was compensation for the debts the emperor had with them. An exception; and quite vigorously opposed by the other, traditional, landed rulers.



Also note that




Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle…




is not the correct reading for this. Wikipedia lists them as members (and unlike the correct German Wikipedia, the English Wikipedia confuses readers with the table heading "states", while correctly grouping "Type of entity: Barons –– Briefadel without territory, Freiherren from 1608, Counts from 1624, raised to Princely Counts in 1695"




Cornello dei Tasso at Camerata Cornello, Lombardy
The Lombard dynasty first appears in documents with Reinerius de Tasso in 1117. Odonus de Taxo is mentioned 1146 in Val Brembana, north of Bergamo; there the name also appears around 1200 in Almenno. During the battles between Guelphs and Ghibellines in Bergamo, between the Colleoni and Suardi families, the family moved to Camerata Cornello, a few kilometres higher in the valley. Here, with Homodeus de Tazzis (Italian: Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) in 1251, the line of the tribes begins. The hamlet of Cornello dei Tasso still reminds us of the family.



Tasso is the Italian word for badger, the heraldic animal of the family, Dax, Daxen, from which the name Taxis developed. In the French-speaking postal contract of 1505 between Philip the Fair and Francis of Taxis, the de Tassis family was named, as is still customary in French today.



Thurn

When the Taxis, which had meanwhile moved to Brussels, were elevated to the status of hereditary counts in 1624, they needed an illustrious ancestry to legitimise their intended advancement to the high nobility. Alexandrine von Taxis commissioned genealogists to "clarify" the origin of the taxis, which until then had only been regarded as a small family of knights who had changed to the merchant class. They now claimed, albeit without documentary evidence, that the taxis descended from the Italian noble family of the Torriani, or della Torre, who had ruled in Milan and Lombardy until 1311. As a result, the taxis applied to the emperor for a change of name. During the Germanization the tower (Torre) became Thurn (cf. mhd. turn) and the tower was added as coat of arms multiplication.



Thurn and Taxis

From 1650, with the permission of Emperor Ferdinand III of Thurn, Brussels taxis were allowed to call themselves Valsassina and Taxis, which became Thurn und Taxis, in French de la Tour et Tassis, in Italian della Torre e Tasso. Also the Innsbrucker and the Augsburger branch of the family renamed themselves.




The early ennoblement wasn't all there is to it:




In 1681, the Brussels line (later in Frankfurt and Regensburg) was elevated to the Spanish-Dutch princely estate with Eugen Alexander, with Braine-le-Château as Titular Principality (Principauté de la Tour et Tassis), and in 1695 to the Imperial Princely Estate, although at that time no territorial possession existed in the Empire. In 1704 he was admitted to the Imperial Princely Council, with a share of the Kuriatstimme of the Kurrheinischen Kreis at the Reichstag; in 1724 he was admitted to the Schwäbisches Reichsgrafenkollegium for Eglingen; in 1754 he received a Virilstimme for the Reichsgeneralerbpostmeisteramt; in 1803 he received another Virilstimme for the Reichsfürstentum Buchau. Since 1741 the house on the "Perpetual Reichstag" has been the principal commissioner.
(Translated from Wikipedia Thurn und Taxis)



So the princely house Thurn and Taxis was 'an estate' of the Kurrheinischen Circle, but did not possess a plot of land in the same… (src)




This is not to say that they didn't have any territory under their control, despite having a clear centre for their lives in either Brussels or Frankfurt when they entered the Kurrheinische Reichskreis. The full title of Karl Anselm von Thurn und Taxis (a mere century later, 1733–1805) was




Des Hl. Röm. Reiches Fürst zu Thurn und Taxis, Graf zu Valvasina, Freiherr zu Impden, Herr der Freien Reichsherrschaft Eglingen und Osterhofen, Balmershofen, Durtenstein, Wolfertheim, Rossum und Meusseghem, der souveränen Provinz Hennegau Erbmarschall
Michael Müller: "Die Entwicklung des Kurrheinischen Kreises in seiner Verbindung mit dem Oberrheinischen Kreis im 18. Jahrhundert", Peter Lang, 2008. (p 126–129)




The point here is that none of their lands where within the Reichskreis and those lands they did own at the end of the 17th century were private property, not princely estates eligible for being a member of a Kreis.






share|improve this answer















Nowhere. As at the time they were introduced to that circle, they were not landed.




The family Tasso originated in Lombardy and made up their genealogy to include "were once rulers there". While the Rhenish Circle consisted mainly of territories, represented by their rulers, the Thurn und Taxis family were personal members of that circle.



This was compensation for the debts the emperor had with them. An exception; and quite vigorously opposed by the other, traditional, landed rulers.



Also note that




Wikipedia lists the County of Thurn und Taxis as a state of the Holy Roman Empire in the Electoral Rhenish Circle…




is not the correct reading for this. Wikipedia lists them as members (and unlike the correct German Wikipedia, the English Wikipedia confuses readers with the table heading "states", while correctly grouping "Type of entity: Barons –– Briefadel without territory, Freiherren from 1608, Counts from 1624, raised to Princely Counts in 1695"




Cornello dei Tasso at Camerata Cornello, Lombardy
The Lombard dynasty first appears in documents with Reinerius de Tasso in 1117. Odonus de Taxo is mentioned 1146 in Val Brembana, north of Bergamo; there the name also appears around 1200 in Almenno. During the battles between Guelphs and Ghibellines in Bergamo, between the Colleoni and Suardi families, the family moved to Camerata Cornello, a few kilometres higher in the valley. Here, with Homodeus de Tazzis (Italian: Omodeo de Tassis del Cornello) in 1251, the line of the tribes begins. The hamlet of Cornello dei Tasso still reminds us of the family.



Tasso is the Italian word for badger, the heraldic animal of the family, Dax, Daxen, from which the name Taxis developed. In the French-speaking postal contract of 1505 between Philip the Fair and Francis of Taxis, the de Tassis family was named, as is still customary in French today.



Thurn

When the Taxis, which had meanwhile moved to Brussels, were elevated to the status of hereditary counts in 1624, they needed an illustrious ancestry to legitimise their intended advancement to the high nobility. Alexandrine von Taxis commissioned genealogists to "clarify" the origin of the taxis, which until then had only been regarded as a small family of knights who had changed to the merchant class. They now claimed, albeit without documentary evidence, that the taxis descended from the Italian noble family of the Torriani, or della Torre, who had ruled in Milan and Lombardy until 1311. As a result, the taxis applied to the emperor for a change of name. During the Germanization the tower (Torre) became Thurn (cf. mhd. turn) and the tower was added as coat of arms multiplication.



Thurn and Taxis

From 1650, with the permission of Emperor Ferdinand III of Thurn, Brussels taxis were allowed to call themselves Valsassina and Taxis, which became Thurn und Taxis, in French de la Tour et Tassis, in Italian della Torre e Tasso. Also the Innsbrucker and the Augsburger branch of the family renamed themselves.




The early ennoblement wasn't all there is to it:




In 1681, the Brussels line (later in Frankfurt and Regensburg) was elevated to the Spanish-Dutch princely estate with Eugen Alexander, with Braine-le-Château as Titular Principality (Principauté de la Tour et Tassis), and in 1695 to the Imperial Princely Estate, although at that time no territorial possession existed in the Empire. In 1704 he was admitted to the Imperial Princely Council, with a share of the Kuriatstimme of the Kurrheinischen Kreis at the Reichstag; in 1724 he was admitted to the Schwäbisches Reichsgrafenkollegium for Eglingen; in 1754 he received a Virilstimme for the Reichsgeneralerbpostmeisteramt; in 1803 he received another Virilstimme for the Reichsfürstentum Buchau. Since 1741 the house on the "Perpetual Reichstag" has been the principal commissioner.
(Translated from Wikipedia Thurn und Taxis)



So the princely house Thurn and Taxis was 'an estate' of the Kurrheinischen Circle, but did not possess a plot of land in the same… (src)




This is not to say that they didn't have any territory under their control, despite having a clear centre for their lives in either Brussels or Frankfurt when they entered the Kurrheinische Reichskreis. The full title of Karl Anselm von Thurn und Taxis (a mere century later, 1733–1805) was




Des Hl. Röm. Reiches Fürst zu Thurn und Taxis, Graf zu Valvasina, Freiherr zu Impden, Herr der Freien Reichsherrschaft Eglingen und Osterhofen, Balmershofen, Durtenstein, Wolfertheim, Rossum und Meusseghem, der souveränen Provinz Hennegau Erbmarschall
Michael Müller: "Die Entwicklung des Kurrheinischen Kreises in seiner Verbindung mit dem Oberrheinischen Kreis im 18. Jahrhundert", Peter Lang, 2008. (p 126–129)




The point here is that none of their lands where within the Reichskreis and those lands they did own at the end of the 17th century were private property, not princely estates eligible for being a member of a Kreis.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 6 hours ago

























answered 9 hours ago









LangLangCLangLangC

27.5k587140




27.5k587140







  • 1





    However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    7 hours ago












  • @PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

    – LangLangC
    6 hours ago












  • 1





    However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    7 hours ago












  • @PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

    – LangLangC
    6 hours ago







1




1





However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

– Pieter Geerkens
7 hours ago






However the family has had extensive personal land holdings (as distinct from fiefs) for centuries, in North Brabant originally and later around Regensburg where they received Emmeram Castle when the Archbishopric of Regensburg was granted to Bavaria as gratitude for their participation in the 1809 war with Austria.

– Pieter Geerkens
7 hours ago














@PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

– LangLangC
6 hours ago





@PieterGeerkens That is correct, but also a bit too late to be of any consequence for personal then hereditary personal membership in such a Reichskreis. It was exceptional to even create just such a new estate. // Funnily, what Napoleon took away, they gained again from secularisation, amply, as if a 'real prince' in that process of concentration. Quite the survivors, bargainers and profiteers.

– LangLangC
6 hours ago

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to History Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fhistory.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f52295%2fwhere-was-the-county-of-thurn-und-taxis-located%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Nidaros erkebispedøme

Birsay

Was Woodrow Wilson really a Liberal?Was World War I a war of liberals against authoritarians?Founding Fathers...