If $fgeq0 , f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1|f''|/f dx$ exists,how to prove $int_0^1f''/f dxgeq pi^2$ ...
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If $fgeq0 , f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1|f''|/f dx$ exists,how to prove $int_0^1f''/f dxgeq pi^2$
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Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara$prod_{k=3}^{infty} 1 - tan( pi/2^k)^4$Prove that if $f_nto f$ uniformly and $int_0^infty|f_n|le M$, then $int_0^infty|f|<infty$How many ways can you show that $ displaystyle int_0^1 dfrac{sin(pi x)}{(1-x)^2} mathrm{d}x $ is divergent?Prove or provide an example where this is false: There exists $f: (0,1] rightarrow R $ that is continuous and “onto”My final question about comparison test (I have listed all necessary things)Prove that the set of all almost upper bounds is nonempty, and bounded below.Prove $sum_{n geq 0}c_n$ converges iff $sum_{k geq 0}(c_{2k}+c_{2k+1})$ convergesInequality involving the sum of functionsOn solution of a nonlinear differential inequalityWhy is it that, when using the u-substitution rule, you apply the the function u to the upper and lower limits?
$begingroup$
If $fin C^2 , fgeq0$ on $[0,1]$ , $f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1f''/f dx$ exists,how to prove $$int_0^1frac{|f''|}{f}dxgeq pi^2$$
The lower bound $pi^2$ was guessed by myself, if it was not true ,then how to find this lower bound ?
My way is to have an analytic extension with $T=2$, and use the Fourier Series to have an evaluation .
But it seems like that I was wrong.
calculus
$endgroup$
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
If $fin C^2 , fgeq0$ on $[0,1]$ , $f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1f''/f dx$ exists,how to prove $$int_0^1frac{|f''|}{f}dxgeq pi^2$$
The lower bound $pi^2$ was guessed by myself, if it was not true ,then how to find this lower bound ?
My way is to have an analytic extension with $T=2$, and use the Fourier Series to have an evaluation .
But it seems like that I was wrong.
calculus
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
2
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
If $fin C^2 , fgeq0$ on $[0,1]$ , $f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1f''/f dx$ exists,how to prove $$int_0^1frac{|f''|}{f}dxgeq pi^2$$
The lower bound $pi^2$ was guessed by myself, if it was not true ,then how to find this lower bound ?
My way is to have an analytic extension with $T=2$, and use the Fourier Series to have an evaluation .
But it seems like that I was wrong.
calculus
$endgroup$
If $fin C^2 , fgeq0$ on $[0,1]$ , $f(0)=f(1)=0$,and $int_0^1f''/f dx$ exists,how to prove $$int_0^1frac{|f''|}{f}dxgeq pi^2$$
The lower bound $pi^2$ was guessed by myself, if it was not true ,then how to find this lower bound ?
My way is to have an analytic extension with $T=2$, and use the Fourier Series to have an evaluation .
But it seems like that I was wrong.
calculus
calculus
edited Mar 22 at 14:02
Alexander Lau
asked Mar 22 at 12:30
Alexander LauAlexander Lau
1278
1278
$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
2
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45
|
show 4 more comments
$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
2
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45
$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
2
2
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45
|
show 4 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The proposition you're trying to prove is false. This integral can be made arbitrarily close to $4$. A family of examples:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}2x&0le xle frac12-epsilon\ 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}(x-frac12)^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}(x-frac12)^4 & frac12-epsilonle xle frac12+epsilon\ 2-2x½+epsilonle xle 1end{cases}$$
Why is this $C^2$? We check the values and derivatives where the formulas change. At $frac12+epsilon$ using the middle formula,
begin{align*}fleft(frac12+epsilonright) &= 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}epsilon^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}epsilon^4 = 1 +epsilonleft(-frac34-frac32+frac14right) = 1-2epsilon\
f'left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon}epsilon+frac1{epsilon^3}epsilon^3 = -2\
f''left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon} + frac{3}{epsilon^3}epsilon^2 = 0end{align*}
Those match the values from the other formula it meets, and the first two derivatives are continuous there. At $frac12-epsilon$, we appeal to symmetry; $f(x)=f(1-x)$, so continuity of the first two derivatives at $frac12+epsilon$ implies it at $frac12-epsilon$.
What is $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$? Rather than calculate it exactly, I'll estimate. We have
$$f''(x) = frac3{epsilon}left(-1+left(frac{x-frac12}{epsilon}right)^2right) le 0$$
for $frac12-epsilonle xlefrac12+epsilon$, so $int_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}|f''(x)|,dx = left|f'left(frac12+epsilonright)-f'left(frac12-epsilonright)right| = 4$. Now, we divide by $f(x)$ inside the integral; from $1-2epsilonle f(x)le 1-frac34epsilon$ on the interval,
$$frac{4}{1-frac34epsilon}leint_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx lefrac{4}{1-2epsilon}$$
What about $f$ outside that subinterval? The second derivative out there is identically zero, so that part contributes nothing to the integral, and $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$ lies between those bounds.
As $epsilonto 0$, both of those bounds tend to $4$, and therefore the integral does by the squeeze theorem. The limiting function isn't $C^2$, but we can make the integral arbitrarily close to $4$ this way.
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$begingroup$
Let:
$$
f(x) = sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)
$$
Then
$$
f'(x) = picos(pi x)+0.2picos(2 pi x)
$$
$$
f''(x) =-pi^2sin(pi x)-0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)
$$
So:
$$
int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx=int_0^1 frac{pi^2sin(pi x)+0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)}{sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)}dx = 9.25905... < pi^2 = 9.8696
$$
Here's the link to the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%5Cint_0%5E1++%5Cfrac%7B%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.4%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7D%7B%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.1%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7Ddx
Indeed it is hard to come up with a non-sine function that allows the integral to converge, but if you make a composition of such kind, you can likely lower your bound. I would suspect however, that there should be a sequence of functions $f_n$ such that the integral converges to zero.
Edit
My reasoning to claim that the integral can be made arbitrarily close to zero is that with a large enough sine series, it should be possible to build $f(x)$ such that the integral exists due to the characteristics of the sine on the extremes, but outside the extremes and some mid point, the function is "flat", i.e. with arbitrarily small $f''(x)$ but with large values for $f(x)$, hence decreasing the value of the integral.
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
The proposition you're trying to prove is false. This integral can be made arbitrarily close to $4$. A family of examples:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}2x&0le xle frac12-epsilon\ 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}(x-frac12)^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}(x-frac12)^4 & frac12-epsilonle xle frac12+epsilon\ 2-2x½+epsilonle xle 1end{cases}$$
Why is this $C^2$? We check the values and derivatives where the formulas change. At $frac12+epsilon$ using the middle formula,
begin{align*}fleft(frac12+epsilonright) &= 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}epsilon^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}epsilon^4 = 1 +epsilonleft(-frac34-frac32+frac14right) = 1-2epsilon\
f'left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon}epsilon+frac1{epsilon^3}epsilon^3 = -2\
f''left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon} + frac{3}{epsilon^3}epsilon^2 = 0end{align*}
Those match the values from the other formula it meets, and the first two derivatives are continuous there. At $frac12-epsilon$, we appeal to symmetry; $f(x)=f(1-x)$, so continuity of the first two derivatives at $frac12+epsilon$ implies it at $frac12-epsilon$.
What is $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$? Rather than calculate it exactly, I'll estimate. We have
$$f''(x) = frac3{epsilon}left(-1+left(frac{x-frac12}{epsilon}right)^2right) le 0$$
for $frac12-epsilonle xlefrac12+epsilon$, so $int_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}|f''(x)|,dx = left|f'left(frac12+epsilonright)-f'left(frac12-epsilonright)right| = 4$. Now, we divide by $f(x)$ inside the integral; from $1-2epsilonle f(x)le 1-frac34epsilon$ on the interval,
$$frac{4}{1-frac34epsilon}leint_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx lefrac{4}{1-2epsilon}$$
What about $f$ outside that subinterval? The second derivative out there is identically zero, so that part contributes nothing to the integral, and $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$ lies between those bounds.
As $epsilonto 0$, both of those bounds tend to $4$, and therefore the integral does by the squeeze theorem. The limiting function isn't $C^2$, but we can make the integral arbitrarily close to $4$ this way.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The proposition you're trying to prove is false. This integral can be made arbitrarily close to $4$. A family of examples:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}2x&0le xle frac12-epsilon\ 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}(x-frac12)^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}(x-frac12)^4 & frac12-epsilonle xle frac12+epsilon\ 2-2x½+epsilonle xle 1end{cases}$$
Why is this $C^2$? We check the values and derivatives where the formulas change. At $frac12+epsilon$ using the middle formula,
begin{align*}fleft(frac12+epsilonright) &= 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}epsilon^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}epsilon^4 = 1 +epsilonleft(-frac34-frac32+frac14right) = 1-2epsilon\
f'left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon}epsilon+frac1{epsilon^3}epsilon^3 = -2\
f''left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon} + frac{3}{epsilon^3}epsilon^2 = 0end{align*}
Those match the values from the other formula it meets, and the first two derivatives are continuous there. At $frac12-epsilon$, we appeal to symmetry; $f(x)=f(1-x)$, so continuity of the first two derivatives at $frac12+epsilon$ implies it at $frac12-epsilon$.
What is $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$? Rather than calculate it exactly, I'll estimate. We have
$$f''(x) = frac3{epsilon}left(-1+left(frac{x-frac12}{epsilon}right)^2right) le 0$$
for $frac12-epsilonle xlefrac12+epsilon$, so $int_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}|f''(x)|,dx = left|f'left(frac12+epsilonright)-f'left(frac12-epsilonright)right| = 4$. Now, we divide by $f(x)$ inside the integral; from $1-2epsilonle f(x)le 1-frac34epsilon$ on the interval,
$$frac{4}{1-frac34epsilon}leint_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx lefrac{4}{1-2epsilon}$$
What about $f$ outside that subinterval? The second derivative out there is identically zero, so that part contributes nothing to the integral, and $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$ lies between those bounds.
As $epsilonto 0$, both of those bounds tend to $4$, and therefore the integral does by the squeeze theorem. The limiting function isn't $C^2$, but we can make the integral arbitrarily close to $4$ this way.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The proposition you're trying to prove is false. This integral can be made arbitrarily close to $4$. A family of examples:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}2x&0le xle frac12-epsilon\ 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}(x-frac12)^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}(x-frac12)^4 & frac12-epsilonle xle frac12+epsilon\ 2-2x½+epsilonle xle 1end{cases}$$
Why is this $C^2$? We check the values and derivatives where the formulas change. At $frac12+epsilon$ using the middle formula,
begin{align*}fleft(frac12+epsilonright) &= 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}epsilon^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}epsilon^4 = 1 +epsilonleft(-frac34-frac32+frac14right) = 1-2epsilon\
f'left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon}epsilon+frac1{epsilon^3}epsilon^3 = -2\
f''left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon} + frac{3}{epsilon^3}epsilon^2 = 0end{align*}
Those match the values from the other formula it meets, and the first two derivatives are continuous there. At $frac12-epsilon$, we appeal to symmetry; $f(x)=f(1-x)$, so continuity of the first two derivatives at $frac12+epsilon$ implies it at $frac12-epsilon$.
What is $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$? Rather than calculate it exactly, I'll estimate. We have
$$f''(x) = frac3{epsilon}left(-1+left(frac{x-frac12}{epsilon}right)^2right) le 0$$
for $frac12-epsilonle xlefrac12+epsilon$, so $int_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}|f''(x)|,dx = left|f'left(frac12+epsilonright)-f'left(frac12-epsilonright)right| = 4$. Now, we divide by $f(x)$ inside the integral; from $1-2epsilonle f(x)le 1-frac34epsilon$ on the interval,
$$frac{4}{1-frac34epsilon}leint_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx lefrac{4}{1-2epsilon}$$
What about $f$ outside that subinterval? The second derivative out there is identically zero, so that part contributes nothing to the integral, and $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$ lies between those bounds.
As $epsilonto 0$, both of those bounds tend to $4$, and therefore the integral does by the squeeze theorem. The limiting function isn't $C^2$, but we can make the integral arbitrarily close to $4$ this way.
$endgroup$
The proposition you're trying to prove is false. This integral can be made arbitrarily close to $4$. A family of examples:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}2x&0le xle frac12-epsilon\ 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}(x-frac12)^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}(x-frac12)^4 & frac12-epsilonle xle frac12+epsilon\ 2-2x½+epsilonle xle 1end{cases}$$
Why is this $C^2$? We check the values and derivatives where the formulas change. At $frac12+epsilon$ using the middle formula,
begin{align*}fleft(frac12+epsilonright) &= 1-frac{3epsilon}{4} - frac{3}{2epsilon}epsilon^2 + frac1{4epsilon^3}epsilon^4 = 1 +epsilonleft(-frac34-frac32+frac14right) = 1-2epsilon\
f'left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon}epsilon+frac1{epsilon^3}epsilon^3 = -2\
f''left(frac12+epsilonright) &= -frac{3}{epsilon} + frac{3}{epsilon^3}epsilon^2 = 0end{align*}
Those match the values from the other formula it meets, and the first two derivatives are continuous there. At $frac12-epsilon$, we appeal to symmetry; $f(x)=f(1-x)$, so continuity of the first two derivatives at $frac12+epsilon$ implies it at $frac12-epsilon$.
What is $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$? Rather than calculate it exactly, I'll estimate. We have
$$f''(x) = frac3{epsilon}left(-1+left(frac{x-frac12}{epsilon}right)^2right) le 0$$
for $frac12-epsilonle xlefrac12+epsilon$, so $int_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}|f''(x)|,dx = left|f'left(frac12+epsilonright)-f'left(frac12-epsilonright)right| = 4$. Now, we divide by $f(x)$ inside the integral; from $1-2epsilonle f(x)le 1-frac34epsilon$ on the interval,
$$frac{4}{1-frac34epsilon}leint_{1/2-epsilon}^{1/2+epsilon}frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx lefrac{4}{1-2epsilon}$$
What about $f$ outside that subinterval? The second derivative out there is identically zero, so that part contributes nothing to the integral, and $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)},dx$ lies between those bounds.
As $epsilonto 0$, both of those bounds tend to $4$, and therefore the integral does by the squeeze theorem. The limiting function isn't $C^2$, but we can make the integral arbitrarily close to $4$ this way.
answered Mar 22 at 15:06
jmerryjmerry
17.1k11633
17.1k11633
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$begingroup$
Let:
$$
f(x) = sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)
$$
Then
$$
f'(x) = picos(pi x)+0.2picos(2 pi x)
$$
$$
f''(x) =-pi^2sin(pi x)-0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)
$$
So:
$$
int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx=int_0^1 frac{pi^2sin(pi x)+0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)}{sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)}dx = 9.25905... < pi^2 = 9.8696
$$
Here's the link to the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%5Cint_0%5E1++%5Cfrac%7B%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.4%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7D%7B%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.1%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7Ddx
Indeed it is hard to come up with a non-sine function that allows the integral to converge, but if you make a composition of such kind, you can likely lower your bound. I would suspect however, that there should be a sequence of functions $f_n$ such that the integral converges to zero.
Edit
My reasoning to claim that the integral can be made arbitrarily close to zero is that with a large enough sine series, it should be possible to build $f(x)$ such that the integral exists due to the characteristics of the sine on the extremes, but outside the extremes and some mid point, the function is "flat", i.e. with arbitrarily small $f''(x)$ but with large values for $f(x)$, hence decreasing the value of the integral.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let:
$$
f(x) = sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)
$$
Then
$$
f'(x) = picos(pi x)+0.2picos(2 pi x)
$$
$$
f''(x) =-pi^2sin(pi x)-0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)
$$
So:
$$
int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx=int_0^1 frac{pi^2sin(pi x)+0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)}{sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)}dx = 9.25905... < pi^2 = 9.8696
$$
Here's the link to the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%5Cint_0%5E1++%5Cfrac%7B%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.4%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7D%7B%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.1%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7Ddx
Indeed it is hard to come up with a non-sine function that allows the integral to converge, but if you make a composition of such kind, you can likely lower your bound. I would suspect however, that there should be a sequence of functions $f_n$ such that the integral converges to zero.
Edit
My reasoning to claim that the integral can be made arbitrarily close to zero is that with a large enough sine series, it should be possible to build $f(x)$ such that the integral exists due to the characteristics of the sine on the extremes, but outside the extremes and some mid point, the function is "flat", i.e. with arbitrarily small $f''(x)$ but with large values for $f(x)$, hence decreasing the value of the integral.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let:
$$
f(x) = sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)
$$
Then
$$
f'(x) = picos(pi x)+0.2picos(2 pi x)
$$
$$
f''(x) =-pi^2sin(pi x)-0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)
$$
So:
$$
int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx=int_0^1 frac{pi^2sin(pi x)+0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)}{sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)}dx = 9.25905... < pi^2 = 9.8696
$$
Here's the link to the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%5Cint_0%5E1++%5Cfrac%7B%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.4%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7D%7B%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.1%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7Ddx
Indeed it is hard to come up with a non-sine function that allows the integral to converge, but if you make a composition of such kind, you can likely lower your bound. I would suspect however, that there should be a sequence of functions $f_n$ such that the integral converges to zero.
Edit
My reasoning to claim that the integral can be made arbitrarily close to zero is that with a large enough sine series, it should be possible to build $f(x)$ such that the integral exists due to the characteristics of the sine on the extremes, but outside the extremes and some mid point, the function is "flat", i.e. with arbitrarily small $f''(x)$ but with large values for $f(x)$, hence decreasing the value of the integral.
$endgroup$
Let:
$$
f(x) = sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)
$$
Then
$$
f'(x) = picos(pi x)+0.2picos(2 pi x)
$$
$$
f''(x) =-pi^2sin(pi x)-0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)
$$
So:
$$
int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx=int_0^1 frac{pi^2sin(pi x)+0.4pi^2sin(2 pi x)}{sin(pi x)+0.1sin(2 pi x)}dx = 9.25905... < pi^2 = 9.8696
$$
Here's the link to the result:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%5Cint_0%5E1++%5Cfrac%7B%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.4%5Cpi%5E2%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7D%7B%5Csin(%5Cpi+x)%2B0.1%5Csin(2+%5Cpi+x)%7Ddx
Indeed it is hard to come up with a non-sine function that allows the integral to converge, but if you make a composition of such kind, you can likely lower your bound. I would suspect however, that there should be a sequence of functions $f_n$ such that the integral converges to zero.
Edit
My reasoning to claim that the integral can be made arbitrarily close to zero is that with a large enough sine series, it should be possible to build $f(x)$ such that the integral exists due to the characteristics of the sine on the extremes, but outside the extremes and some mid point, the function is "flat", i.e. with arbitrarily small $f''(x)$ but with large values for $f(x)$, hence decreasing the value of the integral.
edited Mar 22 at 16:32
answered Mar 22 at 13:17
MefiticoMefitico
1,184218
1,184218
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I'm not guessing anything, just pointing out that the integral is typically going to be negative (e.g. for $f(x) = sin(pi x)$ it is $-pi^2$).
$endgroup$
– Robert Israel
Mar 22 at 12:48
2
$begingroup$
What if $f$ is chosen to be piecewise linear?
$endgroup$
– daw
Mar 22 at 13:16
$begingroup$
Did your bound come from applying a sine function? How did you arrive at this question?
$endgroup$
– Mefitico
Mar 22 at 13:18
$begingroup$
@Mefitico It's quite hard to find a function in which $int_0^1 frac{|f''(x)|}{f(x)} dx$ exists other than $sin(x)$.
$endgroup$
– Infiaria
Mar 22 at 13:42
$begingroup$
Well, the original question is asked to show that integral $geq 4$ , and the method is by using the mean value theorem , but I think the lower can be raised up to $pi^2$,I use the Fourier Expansion to evaluate, and by the mistake of $sum a_nleq|sum n^2a_n|$, I "deduced" the inequality , but later I found that inequality is not true , however, I still feel that result is correct , so I post it as a question.
$endgroup$
– Alexander Lau
Mar 22 at 13:45