Commutative subtraction The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the...
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Commutative subtraction
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the function that is not a binary function called?Functions $h$ such that $h(x*x') = f(x) * g(x').$Examples of magmas with all their elements idempotentsAssocianize a magmaAn algebraic structure with non-unique inverses?Free magmas and binary treesIs there a name for an algebraic structure with only “addition” and “truncated subtraction”?Subtraction MagmasNotions of basis and span in a magmaHave a magma structure when “if the set of integers with respect to subtraction is not a group”?
$begingroup$
It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.
However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.
I am trying to understand the logic.
Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:
$b + c = c + b = a$;
$c$ is unique;
subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.
Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.
Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.
However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.
I am trying to understand the logic.
Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:
$b + c = c + b = a$;
$c$ is unique;
subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.
Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.
Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.
However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.
I am trying to understand the logic.
Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:
$b + c = c + b = a$;
$c$ is unique;
subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.
Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.
Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups
$endgroup$
It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.
However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.
I am trying to understand the logic.
Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:
$b + c = c + b = a$;
$c$ is unique;
subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.
Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.
Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?
abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups
abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups
edited Mar 21 at 22:28
Shaun
10.5k113687
10.5k113687
asked Mar 21 at 5:07
Alex CAlex C
10218
10218
2
$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38
2
2
$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38
$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).
In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.
A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
add a comment |
Your Answer
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$begingroup$
Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).
In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.
A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).
In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.
A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).
In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.
A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)
$endgroup$
Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).
In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.
For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.
A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)
edited Mar 21 at 7:38
answered Mar 21 at 6:43
Eric WofseyEric Wofsey
192k14220352
192k14220352
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38