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Commutative subtraction



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the function that is not a binary function called?Functions $h$ such that $h(x*x') = f(x) * g(x').$Examples of magmas with all their elements idempotentsAssocianize a magmaAn algebraic structure with non-unique inverses?Free magmas and binary treesIs there a name for an algebraic structure with only “addition” and “truncated subtraction”?Subtraction MagmasNotions of basis and span in a magmaHave a magma structure when “if the set of integers with respect to subtraction is not a group”?












3












$begingroup$


It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.



However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.



I am trying to understand the logic.



Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:





  • $b + c = c + b = a$;


  • $c$ is unique;


subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.



Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.



Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?

Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
    $endgroup$
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Mar 21 at 6:38
















3












$begingroup$


It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.



However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.



I am trying to understand the logic.



Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:





  • $b + c = c + b = a$;


  • $c$ is unique;


subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.



Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.



Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?

Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
    $endgroup$
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Mar 21 at 6:38














3












3








3


1



$begingroup$


It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.



However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.



I am trying to understand the logic.



Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:





  • $b + c = c + b = a$;


  • $c$ is unique;


subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.



Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.



Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?

Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




It is well known that subtraction is not commutative in general.



However, it is commutative in some groups: $mathbb I$, $mathbb C_2$, $mathbb K_4$.



I am trying to understand the logic.



Considering a difference between elements $a$ and $b$ of a commutative magma (+) is an element $c$ of the magma with the following properties:





  • $b + c = c + b = a$;


  • $c$ is unique;


subtraction can be defined as a binary operation on a commutative magma returning the difference between two elements.



Let's call a commutative magma subtractive if it is closed under subtraction.



Is there a simple way to find all subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?

Are there infinite subtractive magmas or groups with commutative subtraction?







abstract-algebra abelian-groups semigroups magma quasigroups






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 21 at 22:28









Shaun

10.5k113687




10.5k113687










asked Mar 21 at 5:07









Alex CAlex C

10218




10218








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
    $endgroup$
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Mar 21 at 6:38














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
    $endgroup$
    – Lord Shark the Unknown
    Mar 21 at 6:38








2




2




$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38




$begingroup$
Subtraction is commutative in a group iff the group has exponent at most two.
$endgroup$
– Lord Shark the Unknown
Mar 21 at 6:38










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).



In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.



A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Awesome! Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex C
    Mar 21 at 11:28












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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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active

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4












$begingroup$

Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).



In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.



A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Awesome! Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex C
    Mar 21 at 11:28
















4












$begingroup$

Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).



In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.



A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Awesome! Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex C
    Mar 21 at 11:28














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).



In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.



A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Suppose $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which subtraction is commutative. Then for any $a,bin S$, we have $$(a+b)+b=(a+b)+((a+b)-a)=(a+b)+(a-(a+b))=a$$ which means $a+b=a-b$. Conversely, if $S$ is a subtractive commutative magma in which $a+b=a-b$ for all $a$ and $b$, then subtraction is obviously commutative. So commutativity of subtraction is equivalent to subtraction being the same as addition. Or, a commutative magma has subtraction which is commutative iff it satisfies the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ (since this identity implies subtraction exists and coincides with addition).



In particular, if $S$ is a group, subtraction being the same as addition just means that $a=-a$ or $2a=0$ for all $ain S$. Thus the abelian groups with commutative subtraction are exactly the abelian groups in which every element has order dividing $2$, i.e. the vector spaces over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



A bit more generally, suppose $S$ is a nonempty subtractive commutative semigroup. Fix some element $ain S$ and let $0=a-a$. Then for any $bin S$, $a+0+b=a+b$ and so $0+b=(a+b)-b=b$. That is, $0$ is an identity element. We also see that $0-b$ is an inverse for $b$ and so $S$ is a group. Thus the semigroup case reduces to the group case: a subtractive commutative semigroup with commutative subtraction is either empty or a vector space over $mathbb{Z}/2mathbb{Z}$.



For more general (not necessarily associative) magmas, I doubt there is any nice classification. Here is one neat class of examples. Let $(S,+)$ be any abelian group and fix an element $zin S$. Define an operation $oplus$ on $S$ by $$aoplus b=z-a-b.$$ I claim $(S,oplus)$ is a commutative subtractive magma in which subtraction is commutative. It is clear that $oplus$ is commutative. To see it is subtractive and subtraction is commutative, note that $aoplus c=b$ iff $c=z-a-b$ and so the difference between $a$ and $b$ with respect to $oplus$ is $z-a-b$.



A bit more generally, you could also take any subset of $S$ closed under this operation $oplus$. Note though that not every example arises in this way. Indeed, any example of this form satisfies the identity $$((aoplus b)oplus c)oplus d=((aoplus d)oplus c)oplus b$$ (they are both equal to $z-a-b-d+c$). However, this identity does not hold in every example; in particular, it does not hold in the free commutative magma satisfying the identity $(a+b)+b=a$ on four elements. (Proof sketch: say that a word is reduced if it cannot be shrunken using $(a+b)+b=a$. Prove by induction on length that each word can be reduced to a unique reduced word (modulo swapping the order of sums). Conclude that each element of a free object is represented by a unique reduced word on the generators. Thus if $a,b,c,d$ are free generators, then $((a+b)+c)+d$ and $((a+d)+c)+b$ are distinct reduced words and so are not equal.)







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Mar 21 at 7:38

























answered Mar 21 at 6:43









Eric WofseyEric Wofsey

192k14220352




192k14220352












  • $begingroup$
    Awesome! Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex C
    Mar 21 at 11:28


















  • $begingroup$
    Awesome! Thank you.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex C
    Mar 21 at 11:28
















$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28




$begingroup$
Awesome! Thank you.
$endgroup$
– Alex C
Mar 21 at 11:28


















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