Extension of 2-adic valuation to the real numbersElementary results with p-adic numbersValuations on tensor productsValuations given by flags on a variety and valuations of maximal rational rankp-adic valuation of a sumExtension of the product formula for valuations to a simultaneous completionCompletion of a finite field extension is also finite?Structure of valuations on $mathbbF_q(X,Y)$?2-adic valuation of odd harmonic sumsRelation between valuation of p-adic regulator of totally real field and its finite p-unramified abelian extensionsThe localization of the integral closure of a valuation ring is a valuation ring

Extension of 2-adic valuation to the real numbers


Elementary results with p-adic numbersValuations on tensor productsValuations given by flags on a variety and valuations of maximal rational rankp-adic valuation of a sumExtension of the product formula for valuations to a simultaneous completionCompletion of a finite field extension is also finite?Structure of valuations on $mathbbF_q(X,Y)$?2-adic valuation of odd harmonic sumsRelation between valuation of p-adic regulator of totally real field and its finite p-unramified abelian extensionsThe localization of the integral closure of a valuation ring is a valuation ring













11












$begingroup$


I just want to know what properties of valuations extend to $mathbb R$...



Denote an extension of the 2-adic valuation from $mathbb Q$ to $mathbb R$ by $nu$.
Suppose $nu(x)=nu(y)=0$.



Is it true that $nu(x+y)ne 0$?



What about $nu(x^2+y^2)le 1$?



I'm interested in knowing both whether these are true for every extension, as well as knowing whether there is some extension for which they are true (for every $x$ and $y$).










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – schematic_boi
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – KConrad
    7 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
    $endgroup$
    – RP_
    7 hours ago















11












$begingroup$


I just want to know what properties of valuations extend to $mathbb R$...



Denote an extension of the 2-adic valuation from $mathbb Q$ to $mathbb R$ by $nu$.
Suppose $nu(x)=nu(y)=0$.



Is it true that $nu(x+y)ne 0$?



What about $nu(x^2+y^2)le 1$?



I'm interested in knowing both whether these are true for every extension, as well as knowing whether there is some extension for which they are true (for every $x$ and $y$).










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – schematic_boi
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – KConrad
    7 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
    $endgroup$
    – RP_
    7 hours ago













11












11








11


1



$begingroup$


I just want to know what properties of valuations extend to $mathbb R$...



Denote an extension of the 2-adic valuation from $mathbb Q$ to $mathbb R$ by $nu$.
Suppose $nu(x)=nu(y)=0$.



Is it true that $nu(x+y)ne 0$?



What about $nu(x^2+y^2)le 1$?



I'm interested in knowing both whether these are true for every extension, as well as knowing whether there is some extension for which they are true (for every $x$ and $y$).










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I just want to know what properties of valuations extend to $mathbb R$...



Denote an extension of the 2-adic valuation from $mathbb Q$ to $mathbb R$ by $nu$.
Suppose $nu(x)=nu(y)=0$.



Is it true that $nu(x+y)ne 0$?



What about $nu(x^2+y^2)le 1$?



I'm interested in knowing both whether these are true for every extension, as well as knowing whether there is some extension for which they are true (for every $x$ and $y$).







nt.number-theory ra.rings-and-algebras valuation-theory valuation-rings






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 3 hours ago









Glorfindel

1,31241221




1,31241221










asked 14 hours ago









domotorpdomotorp

10k3390




10k3390







  • 7




    $begingroup$
    IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – schematic_boi
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – KConrad
    7 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
    $endgroup$
    – RP_
    7 hours ago












  • 7




    $begingroup$
    IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – schematic_boi
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
    $endgroup$
    – KConrad
    7 hours ago






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
    $endgroup$
    – RP_
    7 hours ago







7




7




$begingroup$
IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
$endgroup$
– schematic_boi
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
IMHO the title is too much of a clickbait.
$endgroup$
– schematic_boi
9 hours ago












$begingroup$
I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
$endgroup$
– KConrad
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
I changed the title to something more appropriate, so no more clickbait.
$endgroup$
– KConrad
7 hours ago




5




5




$begingroup$
I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
$endgroup$
– RP_
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
I saw nothing wrong with the title actually. Nothing wrong with a bit of humour.
$endgroup$
– RP_
7 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















15












$begingroup$

No. The important thing to know is that, if $K subseteq L$ is a field extension and $v: K to mathbbR$ is a valuation, then $v$ can be extended to $L$. So I can answer all of your questions by working in some easy to handle subfield of $mathbbR$. I'll work in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt5)$ for the first question and in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ for the second.



The ring of integers in $mathbbQ[sqrt5]$ is $mathbbZ[tau]$ where $tau = tfrac1+sqrt52$, with minimal polynomial $tau^2=tau+1$. Note that $mathcalO_K/(2 mathcalO_K)$ is the field $mathbbF_4$ with four elements. Your first statement is true in $mathbbQ$ only because $mathbbZ/(2 mathbbZ)$ has two elements.



Specifically, both $1$ and $tau$ are in $mathcalO_K$ but not $2 mathcalO_K$, so $v(1) = v(tau) = 0$, but $1+tau$ is also not in $2 mathcalO_K$ so $v(1+tau)=0$ as well.



Similarly, the ring of integers in $mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ is $mathbbZ[sqrt3]$ and the prime $2$ is ramified, with $2 = (1+sqrt3)^2 (2-sqrt3)$ (note that $2-sqrt3$ is a unit). We have $v(1) = v(sqrt3) = 0$, but $v(1+sqrt3^2) = 2$. In this case, the result is true in $mathbbQ$ because $2$ is unramified.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
    $endgroup$
    – Greg Martin
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
    $endgroup$
    – David E Speyer
    3 hours ago


















-3












$begingroup$

You can also quite easily demonstrate it with an appeal to extremes.



Take $(a,b,c) in (2 mathbbN+1)^3, ~ c=a+b$



This defines what I will call statement * : c is an odd number. By definition, we can say :



$exists (a_0, b_0, c_0) in (2mathbbN)^3, ~ a=a_0+1, ~ b=b_0+1, ~ c=c_0+1$



and therefore $a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1$



Since $a_0$ and $b_0$ are both even, we can say :



$exists (a_0', b_0')in mathbbN, ~ a_0 = 2a_0', ~ b_0=2b_0'$



and



$$
(a_0+b_0) = 2(a_0'+b_0')
$$

$$
Rightarrow a_0+b_0 in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow (a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1) in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow c in 2mathbbN
$$

which we will call statement ** : c is an even number.



At this point, I think there is no need to say that * and ** are contradicting each other, which is the point of the demonstration since this can only happen if the hypothesis (statement *) is wrong.






share|cite|improve this answer








New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    How is this related to the question?
    $endgroup$
    – Emil Jeřábek
    7 hours ago











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









15












$begingroup$

No. The important thing to know is that, if $K subseteq L$ is a field extension and $v: K to mathbbR$ is a valuation, then $v$ can be extended to $L$. So I can answer all of your questions by working in some easy to handle subfield of $mathbbR$. I'll work in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt5)$ for the first question and in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ for the second.



The ring of integers in $mathbbQ[sqrt5]$ is $mathbbZ[tau]$ where $tau = tfrac1+sqrt52$, with minimal polynomial $tau^2=tau+1$. Note that $mathcalO_K/(2 mathcalO_K)$ is the field $mathbbF_4$ with four elements. Your first statement is true in $mathbbQ$ only because $mathbbZ/(2 mathbbZ)$ has two elements.



Specifically, both $1$ and $tau$ are in $mathcalO_K$ but not $2 mathcalO_K$, so $v(1) = v(tau) = 0$, but $1+tau$ is also not in $2 mathcalO_K$ so $v(1+tau)=0$ as well.



Similarly, the ring of integers in $mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ is $mathbbZ[sqrt3]$ and the prime $2$ is ramified, with $2 = (1+sqrt3)^2 (2-sqrt3)$ (note that $2-sqrt3$ is a unit). We have $v(1) = v(sqrt3) = 0$, but $v(1+sqrt3^2) = 2$. In this case, the result is true in $mathbbQ$ because $2$ is unramified.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
    $endgroup$
    – Greg Martin
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
    $endgroup$
    – David E Speyer
    3 hours ago















15












$begingroup$

No. The important thing to know is that, if $K subseteq L$ is a field extension and $v: K to mathbbR$ is a valuation, then $v$ can be extended to $L$. So I can answer all of your questions by working in some easy to handle subfield of $mathbbR$. I'll work in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt5)$ for the first question and in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ for the second.



The ring of integers in $mathbbQ[sqrt5]$ is $mathbbZ[tau]$ where $tau = tfrac1+sqrt52$, with minimal polynomial $tau^2=tau+1$. Note that $mathcalO_K/(2 mathcalO_K)$ is the field $mathbbF_4$ with four elements. Your first statement is true in $mathbbQ$ only because $mathbbZ/(2 mathbbZ)$ has two elements.



Specifically, both $1$ and $tau$ are in $mathcalO_K$ but not $2 mathcalO_K$, so $v(1) = v(tau) = 0$, but $1+tau$ is also not in $2 mathcalO_K$ so $v(1+tau)=0$ as well.



Similarly, the ring of integers in $mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ is $mathbbZ[sqrt3]$ and the prime $2$ is ramified, with $2 = (1+sqrt3)^2 (2-sqrt3)$ (note that $2-sqrt3$ is a unit). We have $v(1) = v(sqrt3) = 0$, but $v(1+sqrt3^2) = 2$. In this case, the result is true in $mathbbQ$ because $2$ is unramified.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
    $endgroup$
    – Greg Martin
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
    $endgroup$
    – David E Speyer
    3 hours ago













15












15








15





$begingroup$

No. The important thing to know is that, if $K subseteq L$ is a field extension and $v: K to mathbbR$ is a valuation, then $v$ can be extended to $L$. So I can answer all of your questions by working in some easy to handle subfield of $mathbbR$. I'll work in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt5)$ for the first question and in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ for the second.



The ring of integers in $mathbbQ[sqrt5]$ is $mathbbZ[tau]$ where $tau = tfrac1+sqrt52$, with minimal polynomial $tau^2=tau+1$. Note that $mathcalO_K/(2 mathcalO_K)$ is the field $mathbbF_4$ with four elements. Your first statement is true in $mathbbQ$ only because $mathbbZ/(2 mathbbZ)$ has two elements.



Specifically, both $1$ and $tau$ are in $mathcalO_K$ but not $2 mathcalO_K$, so $v(1) = v(tau) = 0$, but $1+tau$ is also not in $2 mathcalO_K$ so $v(1+tau)=0$ as well.



Similarly, the ring of integers in $mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ is $mathbbZ[sqrt3]$ and the prime $2$ is ramified, with $2 = (1+sqrt3)^2 (2-sqrt3)$ (note that $2-sqrt3$ is a unit). We have $v(1) = v(sqrt3) = 0$, but $v(1+sqrt3^2) = 2$. In this case, the result is true in $mathbbQ$ because $2$ is unramified.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



No. The important thing to know is that, if $K subseteq L$ is a field extension and $v: K to mathbbR$ is a valuation, then $v$ can be extended to $L$. So I can answer all of your questions by working in some easy to handle subfield of $mathbbR$. I'll work in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt5)$ for the first question and in $K = mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ for the second.



The ring of integers in $mathbbQ[sqrt5]$ is $mathbbZ[tau]$ where $tau = tfrac1+sqrt52$, with minimal polynomial $tau^2=tau+1$. Note that $mathcalO_K/(2 mathcalO_K)$ is the field $mathbbF_4$ with four elements. Your first statement is true in $mathbbQ$ only because $mathbbZ/(2 mathbbZ)$ has two elements.



Specifically, both $1$ and $tau$ are in $mathcalO_K$ but not $2 mathcalO_K$, so $v(1) = v(tau) = 0$, but $1+tau$ is also not in $2 mathcalO_K$ so $v(1+tau)=0$ as well.



Similarly, the ring of integers in $mathbbQ(sqrt3)$ is $mathbbZ[sqrt3]$ and the prime $2$ is ramified, with $2 = (1+sqrt3)^2 (2-sqrt3)$ (note that $2-sqrt3$ is a unit). We have $v(1) = v(sqrt3) = 0$, but $v(1+sqrt3^2) = 2$. In this case, the result is true in $mathbbQ$ because $2$ is unramified.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 3 hours ago

























answered 13 hours ago









David E SpeyerDavid E Speyer

108k9285543




108k9285543







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
    $endgroup$
    – Greg Martin
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
    $endgroup$
    – David E Speyer
    3 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    "the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
    $endgroup$
    – Greg Martin
    6 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
    $endgroup$
    – David E Speyer
    3 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
"the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
6 hours ago




$begingroup$
"the field $Bbb F_4$ with four elements"?
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
6 hours ago












$begingroup$
Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
$endgroup$
– David E Speyer
3 hours ago




$begingroup$
Thanks for the correction! @GregMartin
$endgroup$
– David E Speyer
3 hours ago











-3












$begingroup$

You can also quite easily demonstrate it with an appeal to extremes.



Take $(a,b,c) in (2 mathbbN+1)^3, ~ c=a+b$



This defines what I will call statement * : c is an odd number. By definition, we can say :



$exists (a_0, b_0, c_0) in (2mathbbN)^3, ~ a=a_0+1, ~ b=b_0+1, ~ c=c_0+1$



and therefore $a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1$



Since $a_0$ and $b_0$ are both even, we can say :



$exists (a_0', b_0')in mathbbN, ~ a_0 = 2a_0', ~ b_0=2b_0'$



and



$$
(a_0+b_0) = 2(a_0'+b_0')
$$

$$
Rightarrow a_0+b_0 in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow (a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1) in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow c in 2mathbbN
$$

which we will call statement ** : c is an even number.



At this point, I think there is no need to say that * and ** are contradicting each other, which is the point of the demonstration since this can only happen if the hypothesis (statement *) is wrong.






share|cite|improve this answer








New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    How is this related to the question?
    $endgroup$
    – Emil Jeřábek
    7 hours ago















-3












$begingroup$

You can also quite easily demonstrate it with an appeal to extremes.



Take $(a,b,c) in (2 mathbbN+1)^3, ~ c=a+b$



This defines what I will call statement * : c is an odd number. By definition, we can say :



$exists (a_0, b_0, c_0) in (2mathbbN)^3, ~ a=a_0+1, ~ b=b_0+1, ~ c=c_0+1$



and therefore $a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1$



Since $a_0$ and $b_0$ are both even, we can say :



$exists (a_0', b_0')in mathbbN, ~ a_0 = 2a_0', ~ b_0=2b_0'$



and



$$
(a_0+b_0) = 2(a_0'+b_0')
$$

$$
Rightarrow a_0+b_0 in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow (a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1) in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow c in 2mathbbN
$$

which we will call statement ** : c is an even number.



At this point, I think there is no need to say that * and ** are contradicting each other, which is the point of the demonstration since this can only happen if the hypothesis (statement *) is wrong.






share|cite|improve this answer








New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    How is this related to the question?
    $endgroup$
    – Emil Jeřábek
    7 hours ago













-3












-3








-3





$begingroup$

You can also quite easily demonstrate it with an appeal to extremes.



Take $(a,b,c) in (2 mathbbN+1)^3, ~ c=a+b$



This defines what I will call statement * : c is an odd number. By definition, we can say :



$exists (a_0, b_0, c_0) in (2mathbbN)^3, ~ a=a_0+1, ~ b=b_0+1, ~ c=c_0+1$



and therefore $a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1$



Since $a_0$ and $b_0$ are both even, we can say :



$exists (a_0', b_0')in mathbbN, ~ a_0 = 2a_0', ~ b_0=2b_0'$



and



$$
(a_0+b_0) = 2(a_0'+b_0')
$$

$$
Rightarrow a_0+b_0 in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow (a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1) in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow c in 2mathbbN
$$

which we will call statement ** : c is an even number.



At this point, I think there is no need to say that * and ** are contradicting each other, which is the point of the demonstration since this can only happen if the hypothesis (statement *) is wrong.






share|cite|improve this answer








New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






$endgroup$



You can also quite easily demonstrate it with an appeal to extremes.



Take $(a,b,c) in (2 mathbbN+1)^3, ~ c=a+b$



This defines what I will call statement * : c is an odd number. By definition, we can say :



$exists (a_0, b_0, c_0) in (2mathbbN)^3, ~ a=a_0+1, ~ b=b_0+1, ~ c=c_0+1$



and therefore $a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1$



Since $a_0$ and $b_0$ are both even, we can say :



$exists (a_0', b_0')in mathbbN, ~ a_0 = 2a_0', ~ b_0=2b_0'$



and



$$
(a_0+b_0) = 2(a_0'+b_0')
$$

$$
Rightarrow a_0+b_0 in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow (a_0+b_0+2 = c_0+1) in 2mathbbN
$$

$$
Rightarrow c in 2mathbbN
$$

which we will call statement ** : c is an even number.



At this point, I think there is no need to say that * and ** are contradicting each other, which is the point of the demonstration since this can only happen if the hypothesis (statement *) is wrong.







share|cite|improve this answer








New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer






New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered 9 hours ago









Sylvain ColsonSylvain Colson

111




111




New contributor




Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Sylvain Colson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    How is this related to the question?
    $endgroup$
    – Emil Jeřábek
    7 hours ago












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    How is this related to the question?
    $endgroup$
    – Emil Jeřábek
    7 hours ago







2




2




$begingroup$
How is this related to the question?
$endgroup$
– Emil Jeřábek
7 hours ago




$begingroup$
How is this related to the question?
$endgroup$
– Emil Jeřábek
7 hours ago

















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