Why does nature favour the Laplacian?Why are there only derivatives to the first order in the Lagrangian?Does Feynman's derivation of Maxwell's equations have a physical interpretation?A simple demonstration that the electrostatic potential has no extrema in free spaceCurvilinear coordinate system around body of revolutionDoes spacetime position not form a four-vector?Calculus of Variations - Virtual displacementsDerivation of Squared Angular Momentum in Spherical CoordinatesConjugate momentum in Cartesian coordinatesUsing metric to raise differential operatorWhy do you have to include the Jacobian for every coordinate system, but the Cartesian?Infinity number of curvilinear coordinates systemsWhere is the error in this calculation of net curl for simple magnetic field?General coordinate transformations?
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Why does nature favour the Laplacian?
Why are there only derivatives to the first order in the Lagrangian?Does Feynman's derivation of Maxwell's equations have a physical interpretation?A simple demonstration that the electrostatic potential has no extrema in free spaceCurvilinear coordinate system around body of revolutionDoes spacetime position not form a four-vector?Calculus of Variations - Virtual displacementsDerivation of Squared Angular Momentum in Spherical CoordinatesConjugate momentum in Cartesian coordinatesUsing metric to raise differential operatorWhy do you have to include the Jacobian for every coordinate system, but the Cartesian?Infinity number of curvilinear coordinates systemsWhere is the error in this calculation of net curl for simple magnetic field?General coordinate transformations?
$begingroup$
The three-dimensional Laplacian can be defined as $nabla^2=fracpartial^2partial x^2+fracpartial^2partial y^2+fracpartial^2partial z^2$. Expressed in spherical coordinates, it does not have such a nice form. But I could define a different operator (let's call it a "Laspherian") which would simply be the following:
$$bigcirc^2=fracpartial^2partial rho^2+fracpartial^2partial theta^2+fracpartial^2partial phi^2$$
This looks nice in spherical coordinates, but if I tried to express the Laspherian in Cartesian coordinates, it would be messier.
Mathematically, both operators seem perfectly valid to me. But there are so many equations in physics that use the Laplacian, yet none that use the Laspherian. So why does nature like Cartesian coordinates so much better?
Or has my understanding of this gone totally wrong?
differential-geometry coordinate-systems
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The three-dimensional Laplacian can be defined as $nabla^2=fracpartial^2partial x^2+fracpartial^2partial y^2+fracpartial^2partial z^2$. Expressed in spherical coordinates, it does not have such a nice form. But I could define a different operator (let's call it a "Laspherian") which would simply be the following:
$$bigcirc^2=fracpartial^2partial rho^2+fracpartial^2partial theta^2+fracpartial^2partial phi^2$$
This looks nice in spherical coordinates, but if I tried to express the Laspherian in Cartesian coordinates, it would be messier.
Mathematically, both operators seem perfectly valid to me. But there are so many equations in physics that use the Laplacian, yet none that use the Laspherian. So why does nature like Cartesian coordinates so much better?
Or has my understanding of this gone totally wrong?
differential-geometry coordinate-systems
$endgroup$
17
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
The three-dimensional Laplacian can be defined as $nabla^2=fracpartial^2partial x^2+fracpartial^2partial y^2+fracpartial^2partial z^2$. Expressed in spherical coordinates, it does not have such a nice form. But I could define a different operator (let's call it a "Laspherian") which would simply be the following:
$$bigcirc^2=fracpartial^2partial rho^2+fracpartial^2partial theta^2+fracpartial^2partial phi^2$$
This looks nice in spherical coordinates, but if I tried to express the Laspherian in Cartesian coordinates, it would be messier.
Mathematically, both operators seem perfectly valid to me. But there are so many equations in physics that use the Laplacian, yet none that use the Laspherian. So why does nature like Cartesian coordinates so much better?
Or has my understanding of this gone totally wrong?
differential-geometry coordinate-systems
$endgroup$
The three-dimensional Laplacian can be defined as $nabla^2=fracpartial^2partial x^2+fracpartial^2partial y^2+fracpartial^2partial z^2$. Expressed in spherical coordinates, it does not have such a nice form. But I could define a different operator (let's call it a "Laspherian") which would simply be the following:
$$bigcirc^2=fracpartial^2partial rho^2+fracpartial^2partial theta^2+fracpartial^2partial phi^2$$
This looks nice in spherical coordinates, but if I tried to express the Laspherian in Cartesian coordinates, it would be messier.
Mathematically, both operators seem perfectly valid to me. But there are so many equations in physics that use the Laplacian, yet none that use the Laspherian. So why does nature like Cartesian coordinates so much better?
Or has my understanding of this gone totally wrong?
differential-geometry coordinate-systems
differential-geometry coordinate-systems
asked 7 hours ago
Sam JaquesSam Jaques
26025
26025
17
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
17
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago
17
17
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
7
7
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Nature appears to be rotationally symmetric, favoring no particular direction. The Laplacian is the only second-order differential operator obeying this property. Your "Laspherian" instead depends on the choice of polar axis used to define the spherical coordinates.
Now, at first glance the Laplacian seems to depend on the choice of $x$, $y$, and $z$ axes, but it actually doesn't. To see this, consider switching to a different set of axes, with associated coordinates $x'$, $y'$, and $z'$. If they are related by
$$mathbfx = R mathbfx'$$
where $R$ is a rotation matrix, then the derivative with respect to $mathbfx'$ is, by the chain rule,
$$fracpartialpartial mathbfx' = fracpartial mathbfxpartial mathbfx' fracpartialpartial mathbfx = R fracpartialpartial mathbfx.$$
The Laplacian in the primed coordinates is
$$nabla'^2 = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) = left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) = fracpartialpartial mathbfx cdot (R^T R) fracpartialpartial mathbfx = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right)$$
since $R^T R = I$ for rotation matrices, and hence is equal to the Laplacian in the original Cartesian coordinates.
To make the rotational symmetry more manifest, you could alternatively define the Laplacian of a function $f$ in terms of the deviation of that function $f$ from the average value of $f$ on a small sphere centered around each point. That is, the Laplacian measures concavity in a rotationally invariant way. This is derived in an elegant coordinate-free manner here.
The Laplacian looks nice in Cartesian coordinates because the coordinate axes are straight and orthogonal, and hence measure volumes straightforwardly: the volume element is $dV = dx dy dz$ without any extra factors. This can be seen from the general expression for the Laplacian,
$$nabla^2 f = frac1sqrtg partial_ileft(sqrtg, partial^i fright)$$
where $g$ is the determinant of the metric tensor. The Laplacian only takes the simple form $partial_i partial^i f$ when $g$ is constant.
Given all this, you might still wonder why the Laplacian is so common. It's simply because there are so few ways to write down partial differential equations that are low-order in time derivatives (required by Newton's second law, or at a deeper level, because Lagrangian mechanics is otherwise pathological), low-order in spatial derivatives, linear, translationally invariant, time invariant, and rotationally symmetric. There are essentially only five possibilities: the heat/diffusion, wave, Laplace, Schrodinger, and Klein-Gordan equations.
The paucity of options leads one to imagine an "underlying unity" of nature, which Feynman explains in similar terms:
Is it possible that this is the clue? That the thing which is common to all the phenomena is the space, the framework into which the physics is put? As long as things are reasonably smooth in space, then the important things that will be involved will be the rates of change of quantities with position in space. That is why we always get an equation with a gradient. The derivatives must appear in the form of a gradient or a divergence; because the laws of physics are independent of direction, they must be expressible in vector form. The equations of electrostatics are the simplest vector equations that one can get which involve only the spatial derivatives of quantities. Any other simple problem—or simplification of a complicated problem—must look like electrostatics. What is common to all our problems is that they involve space and that we have imitated what is actually a complicated phenomenon by a simple differential equation.
At a deeper level, the reason for the linearity and the low-order spatial derivatives is that in both cases, higher-order terms will generically become less important at long distances. This reasoning is radically generalized by the Wilsonian renormalization group, one of the most important tools in physics today. Using it, one can show that even rotational symmetry can emerge from a non-rotationally symmetric underlying space, such as a crystal lattice. One can even use it to argue the uniqueness of entire theories, as done by Feynman for electromagnetism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Nature appears to be rotationally symmetric, favoring no particular direction. The Laplacian is the only second-order differential operator obeying this property. Your "Laspherian" instead depends on the choice of polar axis used to define the spherical coordinates.
Now, at first glance the Laplacian seems to depend on the choice of $x$, $y$, and $z$ axes, but it actually doesn't. To see this, consider switching to a different set of axes, with associated coordinates $x'$, $y'$, and $z'$. If they are related by
$$mathbfx = R mathbfx'$$
where $R$ is a rotation matrix, then the derivative with respect to $mathbfx'$ is, by the chain rule,
$$fracpartialpartial mathbfx' = fracpartial mathbfxpartial mathbfx' fracpartialpartial mathbfx = R fracpartialpartial mathbfx.$$
The Laplacian in the primed coordinates is
$$nabla'^2 = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) = left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) = fracpartialpartial mathbfx cdot (R^T R) fracpartialpartial mathbfx = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right)$$
since $R^T R = I$ for rotation matrices, and hence is equal to the Laplacian in the original Cartesian coordinates.
To make the rotational symmetry more manifest, you could alternatively define the Laplacian of a function $f$ in terms of the deviation of that function $f$ from the average value of $f$ on a small sphere centered around each point. That is, the Laplacian measures concavity in a rotationally invariant way. This is derived in an elegant coordinate-free manner here.
The Laplacian looks nice in Cartesian coordinates because the coordinate axes are straight and orthogonal, and hence measure volumes straightforwardly: the volume element is $dV = dx dy dz$ without any extra factors. This can be seen from the general expression for the Laplacian,
$$nabla^2 f = frac1sqrtg partial_ileft(sqrtg, partial^i fright)$$
where $g$ is the determinant of the metric tensor. The Laplacian only takes the simple form $partial_i partial^i f$ when $g$ is constant.
Given all this, you might still wonder why the Laplacian is so common. It's simply because there are so few ways to write down partial differential equations that are low-order in time derivatives (required by Newton's second law, or at a deeper level, because Lagrangian mechanics is otherwise pathological), low-order in spatial derivatives, linear, translationally invariant, time invariant, and rotationally symmetric. There are essentially only five possibilities: the heat/diffusion, wave, Laplace, Schrodinger, and Klein-Gordan equations.
The paucity of options leads one to imagine an "underlying unity" of nature, which Feynman explains in similar terms:
Is it possible that this is the clue? That the thing which is common to all the phenomena is the space, the framework into which the physics is put? As long as things are reasonably smooth in space, then the important things that will be involved will be the rates of change of quantities with position in space. That is why we always get an equation with a gradient. The derivatives must appear in the form of a gradient or a divergence; because the laws of physics are independent of direction, they must be expressible in vector form. The equations of electrostatics are the simplest vector equations that one can get which involve only the spatial derivatives of quantities. Any other simple problem—or simplification of a complicated problem—must look like electrostatics. What is common to all our problems is that they involve space and that we have imitated what is actually a complicated phenomenon by a simple differential equation.
At a deeper level, the reason for the linearity and the low-order spatial derivatives is that in both cases, higher-order terms will generically become less important at long distances. This reasoning is radically generalized by the Wilsonian renormalization group, one of the most important tools in physics today. Using it, one can show that even rotational symmetry can emerge from a non-rotationally symmetric underlying space, such as a crystal lattice. One can even use it to argue the uniqueness of entire theories, as done by Feynman for electromagnetism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nature appears to be rotationally symmetric, favoring no particular direction. The Laplacian is the only second-order differential operator obeying this property. Your "Laspherian" instead depends on the choice of polar axis used to define the spherical coordinates.
Now, at first glance the Laplacian seems to depend on the choice of $x$, $y$, and $z$ axes, but it actually doesn't. To see this, consider switching to a different set of axes, with associated coordinates $x'$, $y'$, and $z'$. If they are related by
$$mathbfx = R mathbfx'$$
where $R$ is a rotation matrix, then the derivative with respect to $mathbfx'$ is, by the chain rule,
$$fracpartialpartial mathbfx' = fracpartial mathbfxpartial mathbfx' fracpartialpartial mathbfx = R fracpartialpartial mathbfx.$$
The Laplacian in the primed coordinates is
$$nabla'^2 = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) = left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) = fracpartialpartial mathbfx cdot (R^T R) fracpartialpartial mathbfx = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right)$$
since $R^T R = I$ for rotation matrices, and hence is equal to the Laplacian in the original Cartesian coordinates.
To make the rotational symmetry more manifest, you could alternatively define the Laplacian of a function $f$ in terms of the deviation of that function $f$ from the average value of $f$ on a small sphere centered around each point. That is, the Laplacian measures concavity in a rotationally invariant way. This is derived in an elegant coordinate-free manner here.
The Laplacian looks nice in Cartesian coordinates because the coordinate axes are straight and orthogonal, and hence measure volumes straightforwardly: the volume element is $dV = dx dy dz$ without any extra factors. This can be seen from the general expression for the Laplacian,
$$nabla^2 f = frac1sqrtg partial_ileft(sqrtg, partial^i fright)$$
where $g$ is the determinant of the metric tensor. The Laplacian only takes the simple form $partial_i partial^i f$ when $g$ is constant.
Given all this, you might still wonder why the Laplacian is so common. It's simply because there are so few ways to write down partial differential equations that are low-order in time derivatives (required by Newton's second law, or at a deeper level, because Lagrangian mechanics is otherwise pathological), low-order in spatial derivatives, linear, translationally invariant, time invariant, and rotationally symmetric. There are essentially only five possibilities: the heat/diffusion, wave, Laplace, Schrodinger, and Klein-Gordan equations.
The paucity of options leads one to imagine an "underlying unity" of nature, which Feynman explains in similar terms:
Is it possible that this is the clue? That the thing which is common to all the phenomena is the space, the framework into which the physics is put? As long as things are reasonably smooth in space, then the important things that will be involved will be the rates of change of quantities with position in space. That is why we always get an equation with a gradient. The derivatives must appear in the form of a gradient or a divergence; because the laws of physics are independent of direction, they must be expressible in vector form. The equations of electrostatics are the simplest vector equations that one can get which involve only the spatial derivatives of quantities. Any other simple problem—or simplification of a complicated problem—must look like electrostatics. What is common to all our problems is that they involve space and that we have imitated what is actually a complicated phenomenon by a simple differential equation.
At a deeper level, the reason for the linearity and the low-order spatial derivatives is that in both cases, higher-order terms will generically become less important at long distances. This reasoning is radically generalized by the Wilsonian renormalization group, one of the most important tools in physics today. Using it, one can show that even rotational symmetry can emerge from a non-rotationally symmetric underlying space, such as a crystal lattice. One can even use it to argue the uniqueness of entire theories, as done by Feynman for electromagnetism.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
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– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
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– JamalS
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nature appears to be rotationally symmetric, favoring no particular direction. The Laplacian is the only second-order differential operator obeying this property. Your "Laspherian" instead depends on the choice of polar axis used to define the spherical coordinates.
Now, at first glance the Laplacian seems to depend on the choice of $x$, $y$, and $z$ axes, but it actually doesn't. To see this, consider switching to a different set of axes, with associated coordinates $x'$, $y'$, and $z'$. If they are related by
$$mathbfx = R mathbfx'$$
where $R$ is a rotation matrix, then the derivative with respect to $mathbfx'$ is, by the chain rule,
$$fracpartialpartial mathbfx' = fracpartial mathbfxpartial mathbfx' fracpartialpartial mathbfx = R fracpartialpartial mathbfx.$$
The Laplacian in the primed coordinates is
$$nabla'^2 = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) = left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) = fracpartialpartial mathbfx cdot (R^T R) fracpartialpartial mathbfx = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right)$$
since $R^T R = I$ for rotation matrices, and hence is equal to the Laplacian in the original Cartesian coordinates.
To make the rotational symmetry more manifest, you could alternatively define the Laplacian of a function $f$ in terms of the deviation of that function $f$ from the average value of $f$ on a small sphere centered around each point. That is, the Laplacian measures concavity in a rotationally invariant way. This is derived in an elegant coordinate-free manner here.
The Laplacian looks nice in Cartesian coordinates because the coordinate axes are straight and orthogonal, and hence measure volumes straightforwardly: the volume element is $dV = dx dy dz$ without any extra factors. This can be seen from the general expression for the Laplacian,
$$nabla^2 f = frac1sqrtg partial_ileft(sqrtg, partial^i fright)$$
where $g$ is the determinant of the metric tensor. The Laplacian only takes the simple form $partial_i partial^i f$ when $g$ is constant.
Given all this, you might still wonder why the Laplacian is so common. It's simply because there are so few ways to write down partial differential equations that are low-order in time derivatives (required by Newton's second law, or at a deeper level, because Lagrangian mechanics is otherwise pathological), low-order in spatial derivatives, linear, translationally invariant, time invariant, and rotationally symmetric. There are essentially only five possibilities: the heat/diffusion, wave, Laplace, Schrodinger, and Klein-Gordan equations.
The paucity of options leads one to imagine an "underlying unity" of nature, which Feynman explains in similar terms:
Is it possible that this is the clue? That the thing which is common to all the phenomena is the space, the framework into which the physics is put? As long as things are reasonably smooth in space, then the important things that will be involved will be the rates of change of quantities with position in space. That is why we always get an equation with a gradient. The derivatives must appear in the form of a gradient or a divergence; because the laws of physics are independent of direction, they must be expressible in vector form. The equations of electrostatics are the simplest vector equations that one can get which involve only the spatial derivatives of quantities. Any other simple problem—or simplification of a complicated problem—must look like electrostatics. What is common to all our problems is that they involve space and that we have imitated what is actually a complicated phenomenon by a simple differential equation.
At a deeper level, the reason for the linearity and the low-order spatial derivatives is that in both cases, higher-order terms will generically become less important at long distances. This reasoning is radically generalized by the Wilsonian renormalization group, one of the most important tools in physics today. Using it, one can show that even rotational symmetry can emerge from a non-rotationally symmetric underlying space, such as a crystal lattice. One can even use it to argue the uniqueness of entire theories, as done by Feynman for electromagnetism.
$endgroup$
Nature appears to be rotationally symmetric, favoring no particular direction. The Laplacian is the only second-order differential operator obeying this property. Your "Laspherian" instead depends on the choice of polar axis used to define the spherical coordinates.
Now, at first glance the Laplacian seems to depend on the choice of $x$, $y$, and $z$ axes, but it actually doesn't. To see this, consider switching to a different set of axes, with associated coordinates $x'$, $y'$, and $z'$. If they are related by
$$mathbfx = R mathbfx'$$
where $R$ is a rotation matrix, then the derivative with respect to $mathbfx'$ is, by the chain rule,
$$fracpartialpartial mathbfx' = fracpartial mathbfxpartial mathbfx' fracpartialpartial mathbfx = R fracpartialpartial mathbfx.$$
The Laplacian in the primed coordinates is
$$nabla'^2 = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx' right) = left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left(R fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) = fracpartialpartial mathbfx cdot (R^T R) fracpartialpartial mathbfx = left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right) cdot left( fracpartialpartial mathbfx right)$$
since $R^T R = I$ for rotation matrices, and hence is equal to the Laplacian in the original Cartesian coordinates.
To make the rotational symmetry more manifest, you could alternatively define the Laplacian of a function $f$ in terms of the deviation of that function $f$ from the average value of $f$ on a small sphere centered around each point. That is, the Laplacian measures concavity in a rotationally invariant way. This is derived in an elegant coordinate-free manner here.
The Laplacian looks nice in Cartesian coordinates because the coordinate axes are straight and orthogonal, and hence measure volumes straightforwardly: the volume element is $dV = dx dy dz$ without any extra factors. This can be seen from the general expression for the Laplacian,
$$nabla^2 f = frac1sqrtg partial_ileft(sqrtg, partial^i fright)$$
where $g$ is the determinant of the metric tensor. The Laplacian only takes the simple form $partial_i partial^i f$ when $g$ is constant.
Given all this, you might still wonder why the Laplacian is so common. It's simply because there are so few ways to write down partial differential equations that are low-order in time derivatives (required by Newton's second law, or at a deeper level, because Lagrangian mechanics is otherwise pathological), low-order in spatial derivatives, linear, translationally invariant, time invariant, and rotationally symmetric. There are essentially only five possibilities: the heat/diffusion, wave, Laplace, Schrodinger, and Klein-Gordan equations.
The paucity of options leads one to imagine an "underlying unity" of nature, which Feynman explains in similar terms:
Is it possible that this is the clue? That the thing which is common to all the phenomena is the space, the framework into which the physics is put? As long as things are reasonably smooth in space, then the important things that will be involved will be the rates of change of quantities with position in space. That is why we always get an equation with a gradient. The derivatives must appear in the form of a gradient or a divergence; because the laws of physics are independent of direction, they must be expressible in vector form. The equations of electrostatics are the simplest vector equations that one can get which involve only the spatial derivatives of quantities. Any other simple problem—or simplification of a complicated problem—must look like electrostatics. What is common to all our problems is that they involve space and that we have imitated what is actually a complicated phenomenon by a simple differential equation.
At a deeper level, the reason for the linearity and the low-order spatial derivatives is that in both cases, higher-order terms will generically become less important at long distances. This reasoning is radically generalized by the Wilsonian renormalization group, one of the most important tools in physics today. Using it, one can show that even rotational symmetry can emerge from a non-rotationally symmetric underlying space, such as a crystal lattice. One can even use it to argue the uniqueness of entire theories, as done by Feynman for electromagnetism.
edited 6 hours ago
answered 7 hours ago
knzhouknzhou
47.4k11131230
47.4k11131230
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In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In other words, the Cartesian form of the Laplacian is nice because the Cartesian metric tensor is nice.
$endgroup$
– probably_someone
7 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think it's also probably valid to talk about the structure of spacetime; it is Lorentzian and in local inertial frames it always looks like Minkowski space. So if we were to ignore the time coordinates and just consider the spatial components of spacetime then the structure always possesses Riemann geometry and appears Euclidean in a local inertial frame. Cartesian coordinates are then the most natural way to simply describe Euclidean geometry, which is why the Laplacian appears the way it does. Nature favours the Laplacian because space appears Euclidean in local inertial frames.
$endgroup$
– Ollie113
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
In a way you have less than five, since the wave equation can be seen as using the Laplacian for $mathbbR^1,3$ as with the Klein-Gordon equation. So in essence we have three significantly distinct operators.
$endgroup$
– JamalS
7 hours ago
add a comment |
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17
$begingroup$
your laspherian is not dimensionally consistent
$endgroup$
– IamAStudent
7 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
That's true but: the Laplacian wouldn't be dimensionally consistent either except we happen to have given x,y, and z all the same units. We could equally well give the same units to $rho$, $theta$, and $phi$. I think @knzhou's answer of rotational symmetry justifies why, at least in our universe, we only do the former. I've never made that connection before, though!
$endgroup$
– Sam Jaques
7 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
You can't give the same units to distance and angle.
$endgroup$
– user2357112
5 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
@SamJaques Your original question is good, but the above comment comes off as you being stubborn. You are asking what is more confusing about a convention where angles and distance have the same units than a system where they have different units? Come on, man.
$endgroup$
– user1717828
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
If $A$ is the gradient operator, then the adjoint of $A$ is $A^T = -textdiv$ (in a setting where boundary terms vanish), and so the (negative) Laplacian has the familiar form $A^T A = -textdiv nabla$. The pattern $A^T A$ recurs throughout math. From linear algebra, we know that for any real matrix $A$ the matrix $A^T A$ is symmetric positive definite, and thus has nonnegative eigenvalues and an orthonormal basis of eigenvectors. We can hope that a similar thing will be true for the Laplace operator -- this motivates the study of eigenfunctions of the Laplacian.
$endgroup$
– littleO
3 hours ago