Non-orthogonal invariant subspacesWhat if there are two non-orthogonal invariant subspaces?$U_1, U_2, …,...

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Non-orthogonal invariant subspaces


What if there are two non-orthogonal invariant subspaces?$U_1, U_2, …, U_k$ subspaces of linear space $X$ with same dimensions, prove $X=U_1oplus V=U_2oplus V=…=U_koplus V$The dimension of the sum of subspaces $(U_1,ldots,U_n)$Dimension of the sum of three subspacesDoes $V={(1,0),(0,1)}=Bbb R^2=U_1oplus U_2$ where $U_1=(1,0),U_2=(0,1)$Dimension formula for Sum of SubspacesSum/Intersection of Invariant Subspaces that have Invariant ComplementsActions on the Grasmannian induced by an irreducible representationProof of Existence of Decomposition of a Vector SpaceDimension of intersection of 2 distinct subspaces of codimension 1.What if there are two non-orthogonal invariant subspaces?













2












$begingroup$


Let $Gammasubsetmathrm O(Bbb R^n)$ be a finite group of orthogonal matrices. Let $U_1,U_2subseteqBbb R^n$ be two irreducible invariant subspaces w.r.t. $Gamma$ with $U_1cap U_2={0}$, which are not orthogonal to each other, i.e. there are $u_iin U_i$ with $langle u_1,u_2rangle not=0$.



I was sceptic about the existence of such, but you can find examples here in a previous question of mine. Thinking a bit about such subspaces, I came to the following question:




Question: Is it true, that:





  1. $dim U_1=dim U_2=:d$.

  2. Every other $d$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ with $Ucap U_i={0}$ is an irreducible invariant subspace as well.

  3. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.






Update



The second statement is probably false, but should be substituted by a different one.



If it would be true we could do something like this: choose a subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ as described in 2., which is still not orthogonal to $U_1$. Now apply 2. again to the pair $U_1,U$ to show that a certain subspace $bar Usubset U_1oplus U$ is invariant. We can probably choose $bar U$ to non-trivially intersect $U_2$, and hence have found an invariant subspace $bar Ucap U_2subset U_2$ in contradiction to the irreducibility of $U_2$.



I still suspect that there are a lot of irreducible invariant subspaces in $U_1oplus U_2$, but it probably can't be all of them.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Why are you interested in this question?
    $endgroup$
    – James
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    12 hours ago
















2












$begingroup$


Let $Gammasubsetmathrm O(Bbb R^n)$ be a finite group of orthogonal matrices. Let $U_1,U_2subseteqBbb R^n$ be two irreducible invariant subspaces w.r.t. $Gamma$ with $U_1cap U_2={0}$, which are not orthogonal to each other, i.e. there are $u_iin U_i$ with $langle u_1,u_2rangle not=0$.



I was sceptic about the existence of such, but you can find examples here in a previous question of mine. Thinking a bit about such subspaces, I came to the following question:




Question: Is it true, that:





  1. $dim U_1=dim U_2=:d$.

  2. Every other $d$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ with $Ucap U_i={0}$ is an irreducible invariant subspace as well.

  3. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.






Update



The second statement is probably false, but should be substituted by a different one.



If it would be true we could do something like this: choose a subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ as described in 2., which is still not orthogonal to $U_1$. Now apply 2. again to the pair $U_1,U$ to show that a certain subspace $bar Usubset U_1oplus U$ is invariant. We can probably choose $bar U$ to non-trivially intersect $U_2$, and hence have found an invariant subspace $bar Ucap U_2subset U_2$ in contradiction to the irreducibility of $U_2$.



I still suspect that there are a lot of irreducible invariant subspaces in $U_1oplus U_2$, but it probably can't be all of them.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Why are you interested in this question?
    $endgroup$
    – James
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    12 hours ago














2












2








2





$begingroup$


Let $Gammasubsetmathrm O(Bbb R^n)$ be a finite group of orthogonal matrices. Let $U_1,U_2subseteqBbb R^n$ be two irreducible invariant subspaces w.r.t. $Gamma$ with $U_1cap U_2={0}$, which are not orthogonal to each other, i.e. there are $u_iin U_i$ with $langle u_1,u_2rangle not=0$.



I was sceptic about the existence of such, but you can find examples here in a previous question of mine. Thinking a bit about such subspaces, I came to the following question:




Question: Is it true, that:





  1. $dim U_1=dim U_2=:d$.

  2. Every other $d$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ with $Ucap U_i={0}$ is an irreducible invariant subspace as well.

  3. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.






Update



The second statement is probably false, but should be substituted by a different one.



If it would be true we could do something like this: choose a subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ as described in 2., which is still not orthogonal to $U_1$. Now apply 2. again to the pair $U_1,U$ to show that a certain subspace $bar Usubset U_1oplus U$ is invariant. We can probably choose $bar U$ to non-trivially intersect $U_2$, and hence have found an invariant subspace $bar Ucap U_2subset U_2$ in contradiction to the irreducibility of $U_2$.



I still suspect that there are a lot of irreducible invariant subspaces in $U_1oplus U_2$, but it probably can't be all of them.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $Gammasubsetmathrm O(Bbb R^n)$ be a finite group of orthogonal matrices. Let $U_1,U_2subseteqBbb R^n$ be two irreducible invariant subspaces w.r.t. $Gamma$ with $U_1cap U_2={0}$, which are not orthogonal to each other, i.e. there are $u_iin U_i$ with $langle u_1,u_2rangle not=0$.



I was sceptic about the existence of such, but you can find examples here in a previous question of mine. Thinking a bit about such subspaces, I came to the following question:




Question: Is it true, that:





  1. $dim U_1=dim U_2=:d$.

  2. Every other $d$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ with $Ucap U_i={0}$ is an irreducible invariant subspace as well.

  3. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.






Update



The second statement is probably false, but should be substituted by a different one.



If it would be true we could do something like this: choose a subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ as described in 2., which is still not orthogonal to $U_1$. Now apply 2. again to the pair $U_1,U$ to show that a certain subspace $bar Usubset U_1oplus U$ is invariant. We can probably choose $bar U$ to non-trivially intersect $U_2$, and hence have found an invariant subspace $bar Ucap U_2subset U_2$ in contradiction to the irreducibility of $U_2$.



I still suspect that there are a lot of irreducible invariant subspaces in $U_1oplus U_2$, but it probably can't be all of them.







linear-algebra matrices group-theory representation-theory invariant-subspace






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 14 hours ago







M. Winter

















asked 15 hours ago









M. WinterM. Winter

19.1k72866




19.1k72866












  • $begingroup$
    What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Why are you interested in this question?
    $endgroup$
    – James
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    12 hours ago


















  • $begingroup$
    What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    14 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    14 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Why are you interested in this question?
    $endgroup$
    – James
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    12 hours ago
















$begingroup$
What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
$endgroup$
– Servaes
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
What do you mean by an irreducible invariant subspace?
$endgroup$
– Servaes
14 hours ago












$begingroup$
@Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
14 hours ago






$begingroup$
@Servaes An invariant subspace without a (non-zero) invariant proper subspace.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
14 hours ago














$begingroup$
Why are you interested in this question?
$endgroup$
– James
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
Why are you interested in this question?
$endgroup$
– James
13 hours ago












$begingroup$
@James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
@James I was for a long time under the impression that (except for some easily handled cases, see my previous question) linear spaces decompose in a unique way into mutually disjoint irreducible invariant subspaces. This impression was shattered by the answers to my previous question. I now want to understand how much of this impression can be saved, or how strangely invariant subspaces can be arranged.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
13 hours ago












$begingroup$
Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
12 hours ago




$begingroup$
Then it makes much more sense to consider the eigenspaces of matrices.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
12 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

Let $Tin O(V)$ be an orthogonal matrix where $dim V>0$. Write its characteristic polynomial $P_T$ as
$$P_T=det(XI-T)=prod_{i=1}^k P_i^{m_i},$$
where the $P_i$ are distinct irreducible factors and the $m_i>0$ their multiplicities. Because $P_T$ is orthogonal it is diagonalizable, hence its minimal polynomial is $prod_{i=1}^kP_i$.



For each $i$ define $U_i:=ker P_i$ and let $T_i$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_i$. Then for each $i$ the minimal polynomial of $T_i$ is precisely $P_i$.



Proposition: The $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal $T$-invariant subspaces and $V=bigoplus_{i=1}^k U_i$.



Proof. See proposition 4.7 of the linked reader.



For every $uin V$ let $U_u$ denote the subspace generated by the set ${T^k(u): kgeq0}$, where $T^0:=I$. Then $U_u$ is the smallest $T$-invariant subspace containing $u$. It is clear that




  1. If $U$ is a $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$, then $U_usubset U$.

  2. If $U$ is an irreducible $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$ is non-zero, then $U_u=U$.


Because the $P_i$ are pairwise coprime, if a $T$-invariant subspace $U$ contains some element
$$u=sum_{i=1}^ku_i
qquadtext{ with } u_iin U_i text{ for each }1leq ileq k,$$

then it also contains $u_i$ for each $1leq ileq k$, and hence it contains the $T$-invariant subspace $U_{u_i}subset U_i$. It follows that every irreducible $T$-invariant subspace is a subspace of some $U_i$. Because the $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal it follows that non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces are subspaces of the same $U_i$ for some $i$.



So let $U_1$ and $U_2$ be two non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces of $U$ with $U_1cap U_2=0$. Then without loss of generality the minimal polynomial of $T$ is an irreducible polynomial $P$.



For $uin U$ let $T_u$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_u$. Then $P(T_u)=0$ so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ divides $P$. But $P$ is irreducible, so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ is also $P$ (unless $u=0$, then it is $1$). This implies that $dim U_u=deg P$, and hence every non-zero irreducible $T$-invariant subspace has dimension $deg P$. In particular $dim U_1=dim U_2=deg P$, proving the first statement.



The second statement holds if $d=1$ but fails if $d>1$:



If $d=1$ then for every $1$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ we have $U=langle urangle=U_u$ for every non-zero $uin U$. This shows that every $1$-dimensional subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is $T$-invariant, and of course it is irreducible.



For $d=2$ this fails; a counterexample for $n=4$ is given by the matrix
$$T:=begin{pmatrix}
0&-1&0&0\
1&hphantom{-}0&0&0\
0&0&0&-1\
0&0&1&hphantom{-}0
end{pmatrix},$$

with the non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces
$$U_1:=langle e_1,e_2rangle
qquadtext{ and }qquad
U_2:=langle e_1+e_3,e_2+e_4rangle.$$

Here, the $2$-dimensional subspace $langle e_3,e_4ranglesubset U_1oplus U_2$ is not $T$-invariant.



What is true, is that for every $uin U_1oplus U_2$ the subspace $U_u$ is irreducible and $T$-invariant, and moreover that every (non-zero) irreducible $T$-invariant subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is of this form.



Note that $d>2$ does not occur over the real numbers, because there are no irreducible polynomials $PinBbb{R}[X]$ with $deg P>2$.





  1. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.




This is true, and even stronger; there exists a $d$-dimensional $T$-invariant subspace $U_2'subset U_1oplus U_2$ that is orthogonal to $U_1$. For $d=1$ this is easier to see:



If $d=1$ then for $iin{1,2}$ let $u_iin U_i$ with $||u_i||=1$. Then $U_i=langle u_irangle$, and setting
$$u:=u_1-frac{1}{langle u_1,u_2rangle}u_2
qquadtext{ yields }qquad
langle u_1,urangle=0,$$

so $U_u=langle urangle$ is such a subspace.



For $d=2$ I think we can imitate the construction for $d=1$ with some adjustments, but I haven't got a proof (yet).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    8 hours ago











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1 Answer
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active

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active

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active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

Let $Tin O(V)$ be an orthogonal matrix where $dim V>0$. Write its characteristic polynomial $P_T$ as
$$P_T=det(XI-T)=prod_{i=1}^k P_i^{m_i},$$
where the $P_i$ are distinct irreducible factors and the $m_i>0$ their multiplicities. Because $P_T$ is orthogonal it is diagonalizable, hence its minimal polynomial is $prod_{i=1}^kP_i$.



For each $i$ define $U_i:=ker P_i$ and let $T_i$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_i$. Then for each $i$ the minimal polynomial of $T_i$ is precisely $P_i$.



Proposition: The $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal $T$-invariant subspaces and $V=bigoplus_{i=1}^k U_i$.



Proof. See proposition 4.7 of the linked reader.



For every $uin V$ let $U_u$ denote the subspace generated by the set ${T^k(u): kgeq0}$, where $T^0:=I$. Then $U_u$ is the smallest $T$-invariant subspace containing $u$. It is clear that




  1. If $U$ is a $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$, then $U_usubset U$.

  2. If $U$ is an irreducible $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$ is non-zero, then $U_u=U$.


Because the $P_i$ are pairwise coprime, if a $T$-invariant subspace $U$ contains some element
$$u=sum_{i=1}^ku_i
qquadtext{ with } u_iin U_i text{ for each }1leq ileq k,$$

then it also contains $u_i$ for each $1leq ileq k$, and hence it contains the $T$-invariant subspace $U_{u_i}subset U_i$. It follows that every irreducible $T$-invariant subspace is a subspace of some $U_i$. Because the $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal it follows that non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces are subspaces of the same $U_i$ for some $i$.



So let $U_1$ and $U_2$ be two non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces of $U$ with $U_1cap U_2=0$. Then without loss of generality the minimal polynomial of $T$ is an irreducible polynomial $P$.



For $uin U$ let $T_u$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_u$. Then $P(T_u)=0$ so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ divides $P$. But $P$ is irreducible, so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ is also $P$ (unless $u=0$, then it is $1$). This implies that $dim U_u=deg P$, and hence every non-zero irreducible $T$-invariant subspace has dimension $deg P$. In particular $dim U_1=dim U_2=deg P$, proving the first statement.



The second statement holds if $d=1$ but fails if $d>1$:



If $d=1$ then for every $1$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ we have $U=langle urangle=U_u$ for every non-zero $uin U$. This shows that every $1$-dimensional subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is $T$-invariant, and of course it is irreducible.



For $d=2$ this fails; a counterexample for $n=4$ is given by the matrix
$$T:=begin{pmatrix}
0&-1&0&0\
1&hphantom{-}0&0&0\
0&0&0&-1\
0&0&1&hphantom{-}0
end{pmatrix},$$

with the non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces
$$U_1:=langle e_1,e_2rangle
qquadtext{ and }qquad
U_2:=langle e_1+e_3,e_2+e_4rangle.$$

Here, the $2$-dimensional subspace $langle e_3,e_4ranglesubset U_1oplus U_2$ is not $T$-invariant.



What is true, is that for every $uin U_1oplus U_2$ the subspace $U_u$ is irreducible and $T$-invariant, and moreover that every (non-zero) irreducible $T$-invariant subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is of this form.



Note that $d>2$ does not occur over the real numbers, because there are no irreducible polynomials $PinBbb{R}[X]$ with $deg P>2$.





  1. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.




This is true, and even stronger; there exists a $d$-dimensional $T$-invariant subspace $U_2'subset U_1oplus U_2$ that is orthogonal to $U_1$. For $d=1$ this is easier to see:



If $d=1$ then for $iin{1,2}$ let $u_iin U_i$ with $||u_i||=1$. Then $U_i=langle u_irangle$, and setting
$$u:=u_1-frac{1}{langle u_1,u_2rangle}u_2
qquadtext{ yields }qquad
langle u_1,urangle=0,$$

so $U_u=langle urangle$ is such a subspace.



For $d=2$ I think we can imitate the construction for $d=1$ with some adjustments, but I haven't got a proof (yet).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    8 hours ago
















1












$begingroup$

Let $Tin O(V)$ be an orthogonal matrix where $dim V>0$. Write its characteristic polynomial $P_T$ as
$$P_T=det(XI-T)=prod_{i=1}^k P_i^{m_i},$$
where the $P_i$ are distinct irreducible factors and the $m_i>0$ their multiplicities. Because $P_T$ is orthogonal it is diagonalizable, hence its minimal polynomial is $prod_{i=1}^kP_i$.



For each $i$ define $U_i:=ker P_i$ and let $T_i$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_i$. Then for each $i$ the minimal polynomial of $T_i$ is precisely $P_i$.



Proposition: The $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal $T$-invariant subspaces and $V=bigoplus_{i=1}^k U_i$.



Proof. See proposition 4.7 of the linked reader.



For every $uin V$ let $U_u$ denote the subspace generated by the set ${T^k(u): kgeq0}$, where $T^0:=I$. Then $U_u$ is the smallest $T$-invariant subspace containing $u$. It is clear that




  1. If $U$ is a $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$, then $U_usubset U$.

  2. If $U$ is an irreducible $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$ is non-zero, then $U_u=U$.


Because the $P_i$ are pairwise coprime, if a $T$-invariant subspace $U$ contains some element
$$u=sum_{i=1}^ku_i
qquadtext{ with } u_iin U_i text{ for each }1leq ileq k,$$

then it also contains $u_i$ for each $1leq ileq k$, and hence it contains the $T$-invariant subspace $U_{u_i}subset U_i$. It follows that every irreducible $T$-invariant subspace is a subspace of some $U_i$. Because the $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal it follows that non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces are subspaces of the same $U_i$ for some $i$.



So let $U_1$ and $U_2$ be two non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces of $U$ with $U_1cap U_2=0$. Then without loss of generality the minimal polynomial of $T$ is an irreducible polynomial $P$.



For $uin U$ let $T_u$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_u$. Then $P(T_u)=0$ so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ divides $P$. But $P$ is irreducible, so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ is also $P$ (unless $u=0$, then it is $1$). This implies that $dim U_u=deg P$, and hence every non-zero irreducible $T$-invariant subspace has dimension $deg P$. In particular $dim U_1=dim U_2=deg P$, proving the first statement.



The second statement holds if $d=1$ but fails if $d>1$:



If $d=1$ then for every $1$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ we have $U=langle urangle=U_u$ for every non-zero $uin U$. This shows that every $1$-dimensional subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is $T$-invariant, and of course it is irreducible.



For $d=2$ this fails; a counterexample for $n=4$ is given by the matrix
$$T:=begin{pmatrix}
0&-1&0&0\
1&hphantom{-}0&0&0\
0&0&0&-1\
0&0&1&hphantom{-}0
end{pmatrix},$$

with the non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces
$$U_1:=langle e_1,e_2rangle
qquadtext{ and }qquad
U_2:=langle e_1+e_3,e_2+e_4rangle.$$

Here, the $2$-dimensional subspace $langle e_3,e_4ranglesubset U_1oplus U_2$ is not $T$-invariant.



What is true, is that for every $uin U_1oplus U_2$ the subspace $U_u$ is irreducible and $T$-invariant, and moreover that every (non-zero) irreducible $T$-invariant subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is of this form.



Note that $d>2$ does not occur over the real numbers, because there are no irreducible polynomials $PinBbb{R}[X]$ with $deg P>2$.





  1. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.




This is true, and even stronger; there exists a $d$-dimensional $T$-invariant subspace $U_2'subset U_1oplus U_2$ that is orthogonal to $U_1$. For $d=1$ this is easier to see:



If $d=1$ then for $iin{1,2}$ let $u_iin U_i$ with $||u_i||=1$. Then $U_i=langle u_irangle$, and setting
$$u:=u_1-frac{1}{langle u_1,u_2rangle}u_2
qquadtext{ yields }qquad
langle u_1,urangle=0,$$

so $U_u=langle urangle$ is such a subspace.



For $d=2$ I think we can imitate the construction for $d=1$ with some adjustments, but I haven't got a proof (yet).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    8 hours ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$

Let $Tin O(V)$ be an orthogonal matrix where $dim V>0$. Write its characteristic polynomial $P_T$ as
$$P_T=det(XI-T)=prod_{i=1}^k P_i^{m_i},$$
where the $P_i$ are distinct irreducible factors and the $m_i>0$ their multiplicities. Because $P_T$ is orthogonal it is diagonalizable, hence its minimal polynomial is $prod_{i=1}^kP_i$.



For each $i$ define $U_i:=ker P_i$ and let $T_i$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_i$. Then for each $i$ the minimal polynomial of $T_i$ is precisely $P_i$.



Proposition: The $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal $T$-invariant subspaces and $V=bigoplus_{i=1}^k U_i$.



Proof. See proposition 4.7 of the linked reader.



For every $uin V$ let $U_u$ denote the subspace generated by the set ${T^k(u): kgeq0}$, where $T^0:=I$. Then $U_u$ is the smallest $T$-invariant subspace containing $u$. It is clear that




  1. If $U$ is a $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$, then $U_usubset U$.

  2. If $U$ is an irreducible $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$ is non-zero, then $U_u=U$.


Because the $P_i$ are pairwise coprime, if a $T$-invariant subspace $U$ contains some element
$$u=sum_{i=1}^ku_i
qquadtext{ with } u_iin U_i text{ for each }1leq ileq k,$$

then it also contains $u_i$ for each $1leq ileq k$, and hence it contains the $T$-invariant subspace $U_{u_i}subset U_i$. It follows that every irreducible $T$-invariant subspace is a subspace of some $U_i$. Because the $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal it follows that non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces are subspaces of the same $U_i$ for some $i$.



So let $U_1$ and $U_2$ be two non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces of $U$ with $U_1cap U_2=0$. Then without loss of generality the minimal polynomial of $T$ is an irreducible polynomial $P$.



For $uin U$ let $T_u$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_u$. Then $P(T_u)=0$ so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ divides $P$. But $P$ is irreducible, so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ is also $P$ (unless $u=0$, then it is $1$). This implies that $dim U_u=deg P$, and hence every non-zero irreducible $T$-invariant subspace has dimension $deg P$. In particular $dim U_1=dim U_2=deg P$, proving the first statement.



The second statement holds if $d=1$ but fails if $d>1$:



If $d=1$ then for every $1$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ we have $U=langle urangle=U_u$ for every non-zero $uin U$. This shows that every $1$-dimensional subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is $T$-invariant, and of course it is irreducible.



For $d=2$ this fails; a counterexample for $n=4$ is given by the matrix
$$T:=begin{pmatrix}
0&-1&0&0\
1&hphantom{-}0&0&0\
0&0&0&-1\
0&0&1&hphantom{-}0
end{pmatrix},$$

with the non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces
$$U_1:=langle e_1,e_2rangle
qquadtext{ and }qquad
U_2:=langle e_1+e_3,e_2+e_4rangle.$$

Here, the $2$-dimensional subspace $langle e_3,e_4ranglesubset U_1oplus U_2$ is not $T$-invariant.



What is true, is that for every $uin U_1oplus U_2$ the subspace $U_u$ is irreducible and $T$-invariant, and moreover that every (non-zero) irreducible $T$-invariant subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is of this form.



Note that $d>2$ does not occur over the real numbers, because there are no irreducible polynomials $PinBbb{R}[X]$ with $deg P>2$.





  1. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.




This is true, and even stronger; there exists a $d$-dimensional $T$-invariant subspace $U_2'subset U_1oplus U_2$ that is orthogonal to $U_1$. For $d=1$ this is easier to see:



If $d=1$ then for $iin{1,2}$ let $u_iin U_i$ with $||u_i||=1$. Then $U_i=langle u_irangle$, and setting
$$u:=u_1-frac{1}{langle u_1,u_2rangle}u_2
qquadtext{ yields }qquad
langle u_1,urangle=0,$$

so $U_u=langle urangle$ is such a subspace.



For $d=2$ I think we can imitate the construction for $d=1$ with some adjustments, but I haven't got a proof (yet).






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Let $Tin O(V)$ be an orthogonal matrix where $dim V>0$. Write its characteristic polynomial $P_T$ as
$$P_T=det(XI-T)=prod_{i=1}^k P_i^{m_i},$$
where the $P_i$ are distinct irreducible factors and the $m_i>0$ their multiplicities. Because $P_T$ is orthogonal it is diagonalizable, hence its minimal polynomial is $prod_{i=1}^kP_i$.



For each $i$ define $U_i:=ker P_i$ and let $T_i$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_i$. Then for each $i$ the minimal polynomial of $T_i$ is precisely $P_i$.



Proposition: The $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal $T$-invariant subspaces and $V=bigoplus_{i=1}^k U_i$.



Proof. See proposition 4.7 of the linked reader.



For every $uin V$ let $U_u$ denote the subspace generated by the set ${T^k(u): kgeq0}$, where $T^0:=I$. Then $U_u$ is the smallest $T$-invariant subspace containing $u$. It is clear that




  1. If $U$ is a $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$, then $U_usubset U$.

  2. If $U$ is an irreducible $T$-invariant subspace and $uin U$ is non-zero, then $U_u=U$.


Because the $P_i$ are pairwise coprime, if a $T$-invariant subspace $U$ contains some element
$$u=sum_{i=1}^ku_i
qquadtext{ with } u_iin U_i text{ for each }1leq ileq k,$$

then it also contains $u_i$ for each $1leq ileq k$, and hence it contains the $T$-invariant subspace $U_{u_i}subset U_i$. It follows that every irreducible $T$-invariant subspace is a subspace of some $U_i$. Because the $U_i$ are pairwise orthogonal it follows that non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces are subspaces of the same $U_i$ for some $i$.



So let $U_1$ and $U_2$ be two non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces of $U$ with $U_1cap U_2=0$. Then without loss of generality the minimal polynomial of $T$ is an irreducible polynomial $P$.



For $uin U$ let $T_u$ denote the restriction of $T$ to $U_u$. Then $P(T_u)=0$ so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ divides $P$. But $P$ is irreducible, so the minimal polynomial of $T_u$ is also $P$ (unless $u=0$, then it is $1$). This implies that $dim U_u=deg P$, and hence every non-zero irreducible $T$-invariant subspace has dimension $deg P$. In particular $dim U_1=dim U_2=deg P$, proving the first statement.



The second statement holds if $d=1$ but fails if $d>1$:



If $d=1$ then for every $1$-dimensional subspace $Usubset U_1oplus U_2$ we have $U=langle urangle=U_u$ for every non-zero $uin U$. This shows that every $1$-dimensional subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is $T$-invariant, and of course it is irreducible.



For $d=2$ this fails; a counterexample for $n=4$ is given by the matrix
$$T:=begin{pmatrix}
0&-1&0&0\
1&hphantom{-}0&0&0\
0&0&0&-1\
0&0&1&hphantom{-}0
end{pmatrix},$$

with the non-orthogonal irreducible $T$-invariant subspaces
$$U_1:=langle e_1,e_2rangle
qquadtext{ and }qquad
U_2:=langle e_1+e_3,e_2+e_4rangle.$$

Here, the $2$-dimensional subspace $langle e_3,e_4ranglesubset U_1oplus U_2$ is not $T$-invariant.



What is true, is that for every $uin U_1oplus U_2$ the subspace $U_u$ is irreducible and $T$-invariant, and moreover that every (non-zero) irreducible $T$-invariant subspace of $U_1oplus U_2$ is of this form.



Note that $d>2$ does not occur over the real numbers, because there are no irreducible polynomials $PinBbb{R}[X]$ with $deg P>2$.





  1. There are two orthogonal $d$-dimensional irreducible invariant subspaces $bar U_1,bar U_2subset U_1oplus U_2$.




This is true, and even stronger; there exists a $d$-dimensional $T$-invariant subspace $U_2'subset U_1oplus U_2$ that is orthogonal to $U_1$. For $d=1$ this is easier to see:



If $d=1$ then for $iin{1,2}$ let $u_iin U_i$ with $||u_i||=1$. Then $U_i=langle u_irangle$, and setting
$$u:=u_1-frac{1}{langle u_1,u_2rangle}u_2
qquadtext{ yields }qquad
langle u_1,urangle=0,$$

so $U_u=langle urangle$ is such a subspace.



For $d=2$ I think we can imitate the construction for $d=1$ with some adjustments, but I haven't got a proof (yet).







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 9 hours ago

























answered 11 hours ago









ServaesServaes

27.4k34098




27.4k34098








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    8 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    9 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
    $endgroup$
    – M. Winter
    9 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    8 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
9 hours ago






$begingroup$
Thanks for your very elaborating answer. I suspect that parts can be used to prove the same for whole matrix groups. I think that the general case of matrix groups is slightly more complicated as the irreducible invariant subspaces can have any dimension. One small remark to your answer to 2.: the intersection of $langle e_1,e_2rangle$ and $langle e_1,e_3rangle$ is not ${0}$. But I got the general idea, and it is clear how to make it work.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
9 hours ago














$begingroup$
My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
9 hours ago




$begingroup$
My pleasure, it was a nice exercise to straighten out my own thoughts, so +1 to you. I have corrected the mistake in my answer to 2; the subspace $langle e_3,e_4rangle$ does the trick. For whole matrix groups the situation only becomes simpler; the invariant subspaces only become smaller, and the answer to your questions remain exactly the same.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
9 hours ago












$begingroup$
The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
9 hours ago






$begingroup$
The last part of your comment is unfortunately not true. More matrices make the invariant subspaces larger, as they "mix" vectors from the formerly invariant subspaces. E.g. consider the group $Gamma$ of all permutation matrices on $Bbb R^n$. It has only two invariant subspaces: $langle (1,...,1)rangle$ of dimension one, and its orthogonal complement of dimension $n-1$.
$endgroup$
– M. Winter
9 hours ago














$begingroup$
I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
8 hours ago




$begingroup$
I see what you mean now by invariant subspaces w.r.t. a subgroup. Then yes, this quickly becomes horrible as $n$ increases; there is little hope of saying anything sensible unless you have particular small $n$ in mind, or a particular subgroup $Gamma$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
8 hours ago


















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